Friday, September 14, 2007

AN ADVENTURE I COULD DO WITHOUT


I think most of you know I made a trip to Texas to visit my mother who had a stroke. She wanted me to come to say goodbye. In many ways, a sad trip. But the reason I am writing about this trip has to do with the getting there and back part. This is probably the last time I will ever fly again.

Four years ago, Freeacre and I made another trip to Texas by air. The trip had some stress to it and I disliked all the security stuff, but it was doable. This time, I might have gotten myself in some real problems because of the way people are being treated.

I think most of us can agree that this whole terrorist thing with the Homeland Security is bull shit. It was instituted for another agenda rather than protection of the population. The severity with which it has been implemented is something to behold first hand. I don’t know if any of the readers of this post have done any air travel lately. If you haven’t and are thinking of it, hang on, because you are about to be treated as a potential terrorists until proven otherwise.

When I got to the check in counter, I was told that there was a very small limit in the amount of gels, liquids and sprays that I could have with me in my baggage. What I had was a small travel tube of tooth paste and a very small travel container of Old spice in case I decided to trim my beard. These had to be in a sealed plastic bag that would hold no more than a quart I think it was. Freeacre had 2 small jars of jelly she had made to give to sis and mother, and it was a large enough amount that it had to go in checked baggage or it couldn’t go. She took it back home. I was changing planes three times and I’m not about to check baggage if I can help it. Now I find this interesting. I understand the chemistry of mixing common household substances together to make an explosive. I also understand the absolute mayhem and death and destruction one can inflict with fingernail clippers and pen knives and such articles. But for the life of me, I can’t figure out how to make an explosive strong enough to do significant damage on an airplane with a few ounces of liquids, sprays or gels. I guess I’m just going to have to set down and reread “the Anarchists Cookbook” again. I must have overlooked something.

After this got straightened out, Freeacre grumpily took back her jelly and retreated back to the bench with a now overloaded purse of explosive materials and I am wondering what is taking so long to get my boarding pass. The girl behind the computer looks at me and says, “I need a picture ID”. Hmmm. Ok, here is my driver’s license. “What’s the problem?” “Well”, she says, “You’re on the watch-no-fly list”. Now Freeacre and I had talked about this and speculated about whether I was on this list principally because of my rather extreme criticism of these thugs in Washington and writing about it. So I was prepared to go home, apply for ticket refund and call my sister and mother and explain why I couldn’t get there. Come to find out, if there is someone with your first and last name that has committed some terrible act against the country and threatened the security of our great and noble democracy, and is on the loose, anyone with that name is immediately on the watch or no fly list. In fact, I think you can’t get off the list once you are on, and nobody will tell you why you are on the list. Isn’t this a great country? The woman spent some time doing whatever security thing she had to do to clear my name for boarding. Now by this time I’m getting a little tense and wondering how long I could hold out in prison until the revolution sets me free. Plus it is 4:30 in the morning; I’m not at my best at this time anyway. Freeacre decides to wait and have me get through security before she heads off for the hour drive back home. Let’s see, with my pants falling down my ass, (my belt has a metal buckle, imagine that, and might be dangerous and has to be inspected), my hat, shoes and everything in my pockets in the blue plastic tray, including my glasses, I get passed through after 3 tries through the worm hole portal entrance to the sky. I noticed that every other person going through this has slip on shoes or flip flops. Bad preparation if the plane goes down on the high desert or the mountains. Geez. They didn’t question my sack of trail mix or the little bag of nitro around my neck. Just think what I could have smuggled on the plane in a bottle ½ inch high by ¼ inch diameter.

Ok, I get to Portland and have to change planes to Albuquerque, New Mexico. Not too bad so far but in Portland, I had to do this security stuff all over again, all of it. I stagger through feeling somewhat like one sheep in a flock, sit and wait for a couple of hours, read a book and get on the plane to Albuquerque. In Albuquerque is where the fun starts. I have a 2 hour lay-over here and have to change planes going to Odessa, Texas. This terminal is a mad house; thousands and thousands of travelers. When I got off the plane, we were turned loose in the secure area, that is, we didn’t have to go through the security check again. We were literally let out in the loading area for the plane change. About this time I am tired of the whole thing, don’t want to eat any of the airport food, my back hurts and I’m getting grumpy. A half hour before the flight, we finally get the call to board the plane. We are all standing in line, and this guy in a security garb comes over to the line and begins pulling people out and literally frisking them, patting them down, and having them empty their pockets and open carry on bags and empty purses. He begins at the beginning of the line and starts working his way down it. I am near the end of the line. I watch this and my temper begins to take over. Bag at my feet, I start planning how I am going to put the guy down when he comes to me. I am rapidly getting into a berserker rage. The woman behind me must have sensed something and whispers, “hey guy, take it easy”. This S.O.B has a sneer on his face as he is doing this. As he finishes with a person and moves on to his next victim, I was absolutely astonished that his victims laugh and seem to think it is funny. I had this thought start coming to the surface of my mind that these sheep better not ever depend on me for help at anything. Honestly, I was thinking anyone that would joke about this kind of stuff doesn’t deserve to live in this society. Well, I was saved from a rather brutal mistake in action by the line moving to get on the plane and he didn’t stop me. I fumed all the way to Odessa and until I got to my sisters place. I’m still fuming, obviously. Thank goodness the trip back was uneventful except for the being herded along with a great many other bovines through the chutes for branding and inoculation. I have mentioned this incident to a couple of people, I’m still fuming remember, and their reaction is that we have to put up with this for our own safety. Now the question I ask is, JUST HOW MANY FREEDOMS DO YOU THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE TO GIVE UP FOR THIS FLIGHT SAFETY LIE? I guess we just keep giving up just one more freedom for a promise of safety, till there is no more freedom left. What ya think about this my friends?

Now I am writing about this because from my point of view this was one of the more intrusive and degrading experiences I have had, not the only one for sure, but at my age, I have a tendency to think more intently about bad ass resistance to such shit. I’m just glad I got home without landing my ass in jail or worse.

Whenever an airline says they aren’t making any money and are filing for bankruptcy, I am going to be real cynical about it. Every airport I was in had constant thousands of people going through it, and every plane I was on was filled to capacity. I suspect the 700 to 1 ratio for CEO pay has more to do with the bottom line than lack of passengers. Plus, I very much doubt that the little packs of honey salted peanuts you get in the air are taking much out of the bottom line. They do encourage you to bring your own food, but how to get it past security? That Big Mac has definite terror usage written all over the wrapping. At least they don’t charge for the water or coffee to wash it down with. By the way, the orange juice tastes synthetic, can’t prove it, but I do wonder.

Since I have been home, I asked my retired cop friend about security personal that are hired for things like airports. He wasn’t very complimentary about them at all. He says that with few exceptions, most of them can’t be good janitors. His experience is that a very large proportion of them are ex cons. I don’t know. These people are not hired by the government you know. It is a private contractor that does the hiring and training. So you know that they are interested in low overhead.

Now here is my take on all of this, and has been for some time. This whole deal with watch lists, no fly lists, airport security searches and homeland security has nothing to do with keeping us safe from aircraft hijackers wanting to fly airplanes into some building in Bend, Oregon. It isn’t an over enthusiastic government going to extremes about this. What is it then? It is preparation of citizens to endure identity papers, arbitrary searches anywhere anytime and not to question it. It is preparation for a police state. There is no other reason to go to this extreme. I suppose it also serves the function of keeping the unemployment stats down. Pretty good article on this at Alternet.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/62407/

So I know that there is small chance of my flying again. Besides, as fuel prices increase, so will air fare cost and it is pretty high now. It cost $550 to go about 1800 miles each way and I got the old guy price break. The regular price of the trip through the big airlines was from $1800-$2300, depending on the airline used. If I had tried to drive it, I could figure a minimum of 3 days driving both ways and an average of $150 per day if I elected to stay overnight at a cheap motel. Now when I say cheap, I mean it. If there are no bullet holes in the walls and I can’t see any rat shit on the floor, it’s good enough and that quality of room is beginning to cost more and more too. Last trip we took we were doing good to find a place to shower and sleep for less than $80 for the two of us. That is why I elected to fly down, 6 days on the road and it would cost more to drive it, and that’s not counting the wear and tear on me and the car. So I reckon if I can’t drive it, I won’t be going from now on. I refuse to voluntarily subject myself to that kind of humiliating treatment again. Now I got to be thinking what the repercussions are going to be in writing this essay for general consumption. Oh well, I rather imagine that we are going to be experiencing some pretty dark days coming up and my petty bitching about air travel security is going to be the least of my worries. I am supposing that all of you reading this have read how the military has lowered its standards way down for enlistees. Well, I figure that anything that has any connection with the government is going to be the same, including police. The few exceptional people are going to be snowed in by the incompetence surrounding them. I guess we got exactly what we’ve voted for over the years. It’s not a pretty picture.

54 Comments:

At 11:20 AM, Blogger mrs p said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 11:35 AM, Blogger mrs p said...

BTW...did anyone see the story link from C. Baker about the missing #6 warhead?

http://abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread302187/pg1

 
At 12:29 PM, Blogger RAS said...

Now you have a better idea what I went through at the border -only your's sounds worse.

I firmly believe in what Old Lightning Rod once said "Those who would give up essential liberty for a little security deserve neither liberty nor security." (I'm paraphrasing here, but you get the meaning.)

Btw, I have a good frined in
Bend. Anyone who does anything to Bend had better not hurt her, or they'll have to answer to me! (And trust me, you don't want to see me that pissed off...)

 
At 2:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Mrs P – you got it, but it will be tomorrow now 11.15 in the evening here now so off to beddy byes shortly. Btw It was probably a slip of the fingers but it was Murph who made the trip not Cy, I know he was too modest to tell you that himself. At the age of 63 I have decided to become a school child again. I am doing a course in this strange language they have over here, four mornings a week for 12 weeks at this level. I do believe that if you are living in someone else’s country you should at least speak their language. What has really prompted it is that I am fed up with going into a bar for instance, shouting to the person behind the bar “Twee(two) pintjes (beers) alstubleeft (please). And being told “If you go and sit down at a table somewhere, I will bring them over to you”. Actually I am used to the locals practising their English on me but it they have no right to complain that my Nederlands doesn’t come any better. Added to this, I got busy this week on another project but I can see more free time coming up. What a rant and not on subject either.

Murph, (and Ras) you are absolutely right, it is all about social conditioning, and compliance. Know your place, you are only the people we work for. What more is there to say?
Well I could say things that were old hat even in the hippy days like Amtrak and Greyhound. Concepts like Me and you and a dog named Bo, or was it you and me and a dog named Bree ;-) In my old age, nearly said dotage, I kinda like sitting back and being chauffeured around. There again there is always the possibility of getting the only seat left next to the smelly hobo but hey, we are all going to be part of the great unwashed shortly so what the hell.
Sorry to hear of this indignity Murph, you didn’t deserve it, but it is what the world is coming to.

 
At 3:27 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Murph,

Ah ha! AH HA!!! Now you see what I've been bitching about for the last ten years!!!!

Oh yea!! I know it hasn't been ten years since 9 11 and all the airports went totally snake-shit! But if you have long hair, a beard, a black leather jacket, or appear to have walked out of one of those bad movies they made back in the late sixties, the shit never changed!

It's a rel bitch to get drug from the path of where ever it that you are on the way to, and all cavities that might carry a roach searched thoroughly, and treated like a second class citizen when nothing is found, and you get the ass at all the abuse!

Unfortunately this scenario is played out time and time again in the "War on Drugs"! Now it's for another reason!

If the eighty-year-old grandmother that got stripped searched at LAX is a terrorist, then we're all fucked! We might as well figure out where Meca is, because we're going to be facing it five times a day!

And in this post 9 11 world our government afficials acually think that a group of terrorists are going to get on an airplane, wait untill it takes off, produce a variety of liquids in bottles, and brew on their tray tables an exposive material!

After this is rare feat is accomplished, they will attach it to some electronic device of an undisclosed nature, which will detonate it!

I COULDN'T USE THE ABOVE SCENARIO IN A NOVEL!!!!! NOBODY WOULD EVER BELIEVE IT COULD HAPPEN!!!!

Yet President Pork Pie and Company trot this wild bit of speculation out and half of America actually buys it!!! All the while, every day thousands of people cross the southern border of The United States with their house hold furnishings, and all the drugs they can carry! And nobody seems to think it's a problem, worthy of any financial expenditures!

Shit! I need a joint!

 
At 5:14 PM, Blogger mrs p said...

Sorry Murph I spaced out, had your name at the top originally and then changed it thinking I was wrong. Just goes to show ya we need to trust our initial instincts. It's totally ridiculous this game the TSA is playing with all traveling Americans and the like. They know damn well who and where the bad guys are and it aint us. Redic, a four year old was on the no fly list. Idiotic morons make my head want to explode.

What stoney13 said is so true. I think even straight laced America is fed up beyond comprehension, hope they show it soon.

 
At 5:22 PM, Blogger mrs p said...

PS: Today's C. Baker list of things to check out included the following re: #6 missing warhead:

Was a covert attempt to do Iran with nukes foiled by a military leak?

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/09/07/01751.html

Who knows but when they don't explain themselves they're open for speculation. Maybe most of you get C. Baker email alerts so I apologize if this is repeat for you. x, Love, light, and a cool one, mrsp

 
At 5:25 PM, Blogger mrs p said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 5:29 PM, Blogger mrs p said...

CORRECTION: Murph, (not Cyclone) Sorry I oopsed. Trying to hard to be neat & tidy I guess.

Believe it or not I enjoyed hearing about your recent travel as I haven't flown for several years. You had me ready to jump through cyber space and bitch slap that ugly man coming toward you. Hell no. Don't touch my body that way you giant M.F-ing turd. Why can't these robots communicate? What happened to service with a smile and the friendly skies we're paying so dearly for? Screw 'em I say. I'll drive, take a train, a boat, a mule if I have to. Yet it's understandable why you had to fly and all this bullshit is SO NOT about our safety. Now I'm more pissed off than I was when i woke up this morning. But it's a good thing.

 
At 5:34 PM, Blogger mrs p said...

Anon from Belgium, Thank you and kudos to you for learning a language. I regret not being fluent in other tongues. It comes in handy. Not an easy task but being there should help alot.

Sorry for being such a chatty kathy today. I guess I'm nervious about all the shaking around here even though it's minor, it's too frequent for my liking.
Have a good weekend everyone, enjoy some fresh air if possible.

 
At 7:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mrs P.

It was pointed out that I neglected to include who wrote this rant. Sorry to be confusing.

This whole deal over the warhead is a head scratcher. Incompitance or collusion. Either way it doesn't inspire confidence I think.

I understood before about the border stuff. I had it happen to me coming back into the U.S. after attending a folk festival in Canada. The bastards at the border actually tried to set me up on a drug charge. That was in the 70's and my first experience with that kind of stuff.

Belgium, Break out the Berlitz Mandrin, may need that more. lol.

Stoney,

I am well aware about what you have been bitching about. My very first experience was a bust at a party I was attending. The host was busted for 3 pot plants in the back yard that some neighbor had snitched on. This was in 1968. This whole war on drugs has just about the same amount of justification as homeland security and the war on terror. That is, not much.

Strange, in the last couple of years I find myself feeling a type of internal rage quite frequently. Need Freeacre around to direct it where it does us the least harm. Christ is this country crazy and weird.

 
At 5:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

murph... sorry about your momma brother.

all...

down at hartsfield there are a number of kiosks in the security area. security is real proud of this public service display to inform travelors of items not to bring on planes so they won't get hassled and hauled off to the hoosegow.

do we see toothpaste, baby milk, and hair poo?

NAH!

among the dozen or so articles is a big can of charcoal lighter fluid, a purning shears... the kind that takes 2 hands to operate, and the one that really gets me laughin is.... ta da... A CHAIN SAW!!

thats right, a chain saw. can't imagine what they layed out for these little glass enclosed bomb sherters as i'm sure the corporatocracy that designed and sold em made em crash proof. never know when some animal from bend is going to go bat shit crazy, break in, and take after the whole lot with that chain saw. you can't even trust yer grandma in times like these.

i have no argument about the validity of the sheep and the fox as a metaphor for reality. on the other hand, most regular travelors know just how ridiculous, demeaning, and insulting all this charade is. its a cat and mouse game and the most effective survival tactic in a police state, and thats exactly what airport security is, is to present as if you are one of them or aligned with their agenda. i'm not saying thats what those laughers are doing but thats what i'm doing.

that would be at the top of the list of skills to learn in the book... how to survive in a police state. now there's an idea for some aspiring author who's time has come.

what we see at airport security is a dry run on whats to come. now imagine if some of your neighbors are part of DHL's citizin watch corp and your trying to go to the store for a loaf of bread. cuz, guess what, they are!

i thouroughly understand murph's view and agree with his insult and indignation. i feal the same way. but count me in as one of those laughers murph. does it mean i find the whole things funny? hell no! its a joke but it ain't funny!! the whole things absurd and insulting. i ain't cuttin my hair but i'm particularly alert about my body language and my presentation demeanor. then i make sure to be alert and observe... look like i'm watching my shit... the tray, my bag. i am. but i'm watching them too.

if i get pulled aside what i do and how i act is adjusted to the read i get on the goon. i've already been doing this on him periferally as the line moves along so if he hits me i'm prepared. if i see him smile once he's mine! if i see him open to small talk i play to it. if he's like the one murph described
i can be both mildly indignant and reasonably pleasant and cooperative at the same time.

the assult is appalling and rage about this is more than justified. we all know in the street is not the place to go on a rage fest and act it out but sometimes the assult is so unjust we just plain loose it. the best thing we can do to help insure our personal survival is to loose it in private. let that rage move when its triggered in private. i don't know 'bout y'all but i get plenty of triggers just sittin here at this computer. by "move" i mean express in sound and body movement without harming self or another. let 'er rip! peel the wallpaper!! blow the fuckin roof off!!! and as far as i'm concerned, this circle is a private space. banging away at a keyboard ain't necessarly movin but it can sure get it stired up. so have at it!

same thing goes for terror. there is a war on terror. held terror!our held terror!!

that's what these fucks are energetically feeding off of folks... the energies of denied emotions and held emotions that aren't moving. the attack on the human psyche is real and the survival chakra ain't gonna take much more. thats when we'll see revolution.

we are on the threshold of dire times and we have to prepare to survive. in my view that absolutely includes learning the role emotions are playing and how to deal with that. its the one thing that can truely save our ass! thats part of what our emotions are for...p

 
At 6:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

mrs p... so you got alotta shakin going on out there?

you might keep an eye on jim berkland's site... http://syzygyjob.com/ lives in glen ellyn which is just south of santa rosa in the valley of the moon. he's been around for years. came into notoriety in wake of 89 world series shaker which he predicted and was summarily suspended for scaring the hell otta folks and subsequently muted. note a big part of his prognostications hinge on moon phases/tidal forces along with animal behavior. (syzygy: the straight line configuration of 3 celestial bodies (as the sun and earth and moon)

berkland's accuracy rate runs consistently 80%+. not saying you should subscirbe. i don't. but i keep an eye on the forum. there's plenty of what generally amounts to a collection of folks reacting to their own shadow and their attributon of sundried "signals" to real events can be quite a stretch. but, along with the "ask jim" thread there are 2 regular characters of note... jack coles and frank condon. note a category on the forum for each of them.

coles appears to be a real ecentric and passes his info along via phone to bluefeather who posts it. he has no website and regularly solicites pocket change for phone money from what i can tell. its comical and all kinda cloak and dagger actually. i have no idea what his methedology is but he's often accurate to area, date windows, and mag.

condon uses a series of homegrown monitors to pick up on terra signals... http://www.geo-seismic-labs.org/ he's been particularly focused on the 2 lines coming up out of the sultan that join together near riverside to form the main san andreas fault line.

most would write these guys off a loonies but they've had too many hits to ignore.

condon posted this yesterday... "The activity along the opposite edge of the Pacific Plate from North America has now increased substantially. As a result the seismic activity related to the remote-triggering effect is going to also increase. ULF activity is also increased. The Nucleation of Stress Level is a measurement for the stress which is being off-loaded from the Pacific-North American Plate Boundary and into the secondary fault system, which includes the Elsinore and San Jacinto Fault Zones. It's going to increase the potential for earthquakes epicentered in the region from The Gulf of California to the Mojave Desert, including the Los Angeles Basin and the offshore region from Santa Barbara to San Diego, CA."

keep in mind darlin that there's always activity and these sensitives... human, animal, and mechanical... can and do pick up on it. what i do is watch for chatter about big ones... p

 
At 7:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

fa... ya the time monks may have a hit. could be sumatra was 2nd of the twins which leaves the 3rd in the lingo looming on the horizon.

looks like its finally settling down a bit but its been a hairy few days for the natives over there. started off with that 8.4 followed by dozens of big bangers... a 7.9, 7.0, 4 @ 6+, and over 40 in the 5's. no tellin how many below those mags. the ring is showing signs of the reverberation. thats normal but it sure looks like this part of the picture is ramping up... p

 
At 8:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Murph,

I think the general consensus on this, is one of sympathetic empathy and a feeling that discretion is the better part of valour until you see them alone in a dark alley.

 
At 1:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palooka,

Interesting comments you made concerning the posted experience. Did some thinking about it. Here is my analysis, but first, if I misunderstood what you said, tell me.

What you are describing is rather classic. Live to fight again another day, choose your battles carefully, etc.

The problem is that from a moral or an ethical position, giving in is a form of compromise to, I could term, evil intentions, in a broad sense. I have never been very good at doing this. In fact, I maintain that compromise of any sort means that the right thing never gets done. I also realize that this is a very unpopular position to take if you are living in a modern society. A discussion of this aspect might be interesting. But, for the immediate subject, giving in to malicious authority, is what I will stick to.

When we are dealing with authority figures that have near total control over you, at least under certain circumstances, I agree it is expedient to give in with a smile to keep yourself, hopefully, from suffering more indignities. What I am concerned with is the extension of that. For, if the authority figures do this often enough, the smile and eat shit becomes a habit and the anger and rebellion against it starts to disappear, you start accepting it as a norm. That is the way our brains work. Now, if you agree with the above analysis, wouldn't it make sense to say that this is a form of denial? Our minds begin making excuses for what is being done to us, and we become accepting of it. I am going to assert that this is well known by those that are into being authoritarians, and is used with malice and forethought. It is another aspect of repeating a lie long enough and people begin to believe it, even when the evidence before you says it is not true. This non acceptance of what is evident is called denial also. Therefore, may I conclude that every time any of us give in with a smile to the indignities poured upon us, we take one step closer to accepting it as normal?

 
At 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

p, thanks for the link(s), i'll be checking it. mrsp

 
At 2:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i can't sleep at night accepting "what is normal" in our world today...feel like I'm surrounded by zombies and i'm in the twilightzone. In your situation I would have a hard time holding back, saying...Is this necessary for you to ruff us up like this at this point in the process? You know...like haven't we been through enough? Besides it's down right absurd when you know the terrorists who want to mess with the airlines are all on a list anyway. They know exactly where everybody is. You can't hide from them. I haven't flown since 2003 so I guess it's gotten much worse. I don't see how any serious terrorist could get a ticket in the first place. The wireless & computerized technology the NSA and NTS have is mind boggling. The NSA can see you close up anytime, anywhere they want. I think we are deep into a facist state so far that it's too late to reverse it now. It's unbelievable. We have to release our frustrations with creativity and surround ourselves with good friends. Rants are healthy. I hear these complaints from everyone who travels. The natives are getting restless. mrsp

 
At 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon from Belgium
Sounds like you're dealing with mirgration problems there? I think you got me wrong re upbringing on respecting other cultures. Aren't missing nukes a more urgent thing? You misunderstood crossing paths w/not so nice people in my past--I should've made it clear they were all WHITE people. I've never had a problem w/the immagrants here not sure how you got that? When you say there's 10,000 of them, whom do you mean? I was referring to the admin playing the nuke card against other countries. The fact that the U.S./Israel will not sign the Non Proliferation Treaty, Israel won't even admit they have nukes & it's well documented they do, won't even talk to the IAEA. They're as careless and NUTZO as the U.S. admin when it comes to slaugtering innocent people for no particular reason. You were right about the post being too much. I thought with Cheney's hideous hateful photo it was self explanitory. God he's ugly and mean. Anyway...Good luck w/your classes--hope it'll be a fun thing after awhile. cheers, mrsp :-)

 
At 3:03 PM, Blogger RAS said...

murph, i think that compromise is sometimes necessary, especially since you can't change things if they kill you first!

mrs. p, they're not trying to catch the terrorists. that's what they say, but the whole thing is merely a tactic to intimidate people -nothing more. I'm beginning to think my idea of a cabin in the woods with a herd of goats and sheep isn't such a bad idea. I just wouldn't want to be there alone. *sigh* being single sucks, sometimes.

 
At 3:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

I take everyone’s points as valid but what I don’t see is anyone boycotting the airlines. The place to hurt a corporation is in the pocket but it would seem that peoples need to travel quickly is greater than their need for civil dignities. What conclusions should we draw from this and how far do you think the screw could be turned before peoples natural obedience starts to falter?

 
At 5:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Belgium,

My impression, erroneous it might be, is that people are not looking at this situation in air travel as a particularly odious experience. I sat and listened to yuppies talking about their trip to Greece or Paris or Vienna or Alaska or Japan or China all the time on this trip. Most of them were talking about being gone for 4 weeks at a time and bitching that the scenery hadn't changed since the last time they were there. I rather imagine they are of the point of view that "I'm not a terrorist, I don't do anything illegal, so why should I be concerned, and if you aren't doing anything illegal you shouldn't either" I am assuming you have come onto that argument before too. I have a tendency to gag every time someone presents me with that trite piece of bull shit.

I totally agree that the way to hurt a corporation is in the pocket, stop buying their shit. Not easy to do but you can sure start evaluating what you are buying and start some serious limiting of buying crap that you don't need or will never use. Might be good practice cause it's coming to that anyway.

Ras,
I understand what you mean about compromise. And in the circumstance where incarceration is the alternative, yes, you compromise your principles. But, keep in mind the previous comment I made. You start doing that and it becomes easier and easier to justify further compromise, to the point where you follow orders to torture prisoners to keep your job? That slippery slope leads to lack of integrity, lying as a matter of course, and again, the right thing is never done in political compromise. I find it to be a real bitch problem myself.

 
At 7:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This makes me wish that we had an Amish "Ann Landers." I wonder what an Amish person would do. Do they ride on airplanes? If one of them had to go to Texas from Pennsylvania, how would they get there? By horse & buggy? Inquiring minds want to know...

 
At 8:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

ras, You're so right...I forget what's really going on. They aren't trying to catch them at all. And I'm with you on the cabin and the goats. I've always wanted to do that but can't get the hubby away from the water. We tried once in N. Ca in McKinleyville where you CAN have goats and land and still be very close to the ocean which is much colder up there. We stayed at some little cabins right on the ocean at Patrick's Point and met the daughter of the lady who started the local Goat Cheese place that sells to all the resturants. She didn't know anything about it, just wanted to do it and now she's been doing it for several years. You can do it too. Being alone is so hard, I know, I'm alone alot more than I care to be. Being single does suck sometimes. Even a married woman tends to be single way too much believe it or not but without the benefits of the single part. :-(
I hope someday we all get that little plot of land and the goats too.

Murph, lol on the gagging thing. Those types would be the 1st to complain if they had their stuff taken away from them. mrsp

 
At 9:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

freeacre, I used google to ask the question Do the Amish ride in airplanes? and found an intersting web page with pictures too. And way down on the page there's a paragraph where they say that the Amish do not ride in airplanes. but maybe some do? mrsp

http://www.holycrosslivonia.org/amish/origin.htm

 
At 4:54 AM, Blogger RAS said...

Freeacre -the Amish ride greyhound when it's too far to go by horse and buggy and they need to get there fairly quickly. Or at least, some sects do; they are not a monolithic body and some sects won't even do that. I know way too much about the Amish; I find them to be a very fascinating people.

 
At 6:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

murph...

you have a unique view regarding compromise. very rare. and i agree with you totally on what it means.

thats what you see me as doing right? giving in. and thats a form of compromise. the reality of what's going on is one thing. how i feel about it is another. in this case, the reality is appalling. i accept that for what it is which is as you describe. accepting it and aligning with it are 2 different things. accepting it for what is don't necessarly mean i like it either. i don't feel like i'm giving in at all. i just don't feel that way about it. if i did it'd be different. and i don't feel like i'm compromising myself in any way. on the contrary. i feel like i'm taking care of myself.

maybe your're right. i could be in denial about it. there's things i know i'm in denial about and then things i don't know i'm in denial about. the first step in clearing denial is realizing it. one thing i'd fer sure argue about it is your conclusion that ALL giving in is a form of compromising with evil intentions. i didn't get sober until i gave in! giving in can be the opposite of compromise. its all relative to the experience at hand. one size does not fit all.

i couldn't agree more with you about the conditioning and how it is used and manipulated by sinister forces. some of those forces are conscious. many not. conditioning starts at birth and there's solid evidence it starts in the womb even. we're already set up as prime canditates by the poisionous pedagogies of family, cultural, social, religous, etc, systems that pirate the very soul and self of the developing child of god. we are conditioned to deny ourselves from the very beginning. it continues into adulthood and there's no let up. most everybody ends up both perp and victum.

i agree with your annalysis. in this case, if "giving in" were the way i felt about it, i would agree it is a form of denial. but i would be more concerned with moving into my issues around that feeling than this form it happened to play out in.

as for your conclusion... in my view, any form of non acceptance is a form of denial. so if that is what is going on in what i'm doing at the airport, then i am in denial. the opposite of unconditional acceptance is conditional acceptance. anything short of unconditional acceptance is a form of denial. assuming the feeling is a true response and not a conditioned response, if an apple does not agree to be eaten then its desire is being overridden by outside forces. if eaten happens to be what feels right to it for it to move on then there is no denial by the apple of itself. we assume apples don't feel. do they? do i feel like i'm getting eaten at the airport against my will? i feel like thats what they want to do. but if i get through that line and on that plane which is my desire i feel like they went hungry.

 
At 7:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, it's my turn to visit a parent. My father is hospitalized, and I need to visit him in Vancouver. I'm driving, so with any luck, there will be no problems. Keep the Murphinator steady for me. Love to you all.
aho

 
At 7:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freeacre my sister, drive safe, we really need you for the love and wisdom you provide here at this council of elders and other interested brothers and sisters.
The journey is going to get so far out i feel that ordinary is just something that happened a long time ago and can hardly be remembered.

We will hold the light for you and know that it surrounds you and that nothing can harm you.
aho
mf

 
At 10:01 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Murph,

Sorry to hear about your mother's stroke. I should have said it earlier, but I was so pissed off at the treatment you recieved on your trip, I forgot about the reason that you went in the first place!

Freeacre,

Be carefull on the drive, and don't try to look too "Counterculture" or you'll get the blue-light treatment with all the indignaties thrown in for good measure!

I remember way back in the day when I was headed (in a roundabout way!) for Sturgis for the big biker blow-out, and trade fair, when I foolishly decided to check out the "amber waves of grain" in Kansas, on my from digging the "fruited plains" of California. (Found this little place called "Hubolt", or some such name! Great people grow some BITCHIN' weed there!)

Right outside of this little wide-spot in the road who's name escapes me I got pulled over by the father of all shit-kicker Sherriff stereotypes! He had it all down to a science!

He even gave me the "We don't need yo' kind 'roud here, boy!" scenario, with a generous side order of "Ten fingas on the fender, boy!"

It was then that this throw-back to all that is wrong with law enforcement proceded to "search" my '47 Indian bobber. This involved flinging the contents of my bed roll, and tool bag, from Hell to breakfast, before asking me how many drugs I had stashed in my tires!

Thankfully I had the ounce of weed I picked up in Humbolt County California stashed neatly in the headlight, and evidently he hadn't heard about that that one!

I told him I had no drugs, and even if I did, it wouldn't matter, because he hadn't asked to search my bike before he did! Then I handed him my driver's licence and registation, that happened to have my ACLU membership card stuck between them! After a few minutes, on the radio, he came back and asked me just where the hell I thought I was going.

I told him I was going anywhere I damned well pleased! I had a driver's licence, and a tag, and insurance on the bike that said I could! I snatched my licence and registration card out of his hand, poked them back in my wallet, and started picking up all the shit that had been rolled up in my sleeping bag before he "searched" it.

I bungeed the sleeping bag back on the bitch bar, and re-packed my tool bag, while he went back to the squad car for more radio time. It was then I noticed that my key was gone out of the ignition switch!

When he came back, he was all smiles! Called me "sir" and told me he hoped that there was no problems, but he "had a job to do" and hoped I understood. No shit! There was real fear in this clown's eyes! I didn't know whether to shit or go blind!!!

I told him not to sweat it, but I didn't take kindly to being called a "boy" and if he didn't produce the key to my bike, I was going to have to pull the ground wire off my magneto! And if I did, I would ride to the nearest payphone and fill his world with lawyers! That seemed to get his attention! He damn near ripped his pockets off getting me that key!

I've used that ACLU card between the licence, and registration at least a hundred times since then, and it ALWAYS gets me off!

 
At 10:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palooka, I think from the 6:48 comments

Yup, my position on compromise is very much out of step with most peoples thinking. I don’t remember how far back in time I had that realization. I rather imagine I read some political analysis way back when that led me to this position.

Within the political process, compromise is very much idealized, and I hope it is obvious what kind of a mess that has created. I will state again, when principle is compromised to make a decision, the right thing is never done. It is always going to involve things we call integrity and honesty too. In my experience, compromise has to deal with ego systems. Ego doesn’t like to admit it doesn’t have the best solution, or that an opponent in some way has a better solution. The best solution often involves someone losing privilege or advantage. Can’t have that. What it also often comes down to is that the compromise is forced by the person or group with the most bucks or power to enforce it. In our legislative process, you will notice that is the primary means of getting anything done.

On a personal level, one of my big concerns is that it is much easier to compromise than to take a stand, because often this involves people that can hurt you, or make your life miserable. So we compromise our principles, our integrity and say to ourselves, I really feel this way but this is not a battle I am willing to fight. I am again going to assert that this becomes a habit in thinking when that decision is pressed often enough, and leads eventually to acquiescence to some of the most extreme positions. I assert that it is a technique to get people to go along with all kinds of stuff they wouldn’t ordinarily agree to. I agree that you can hold a mental attitude that is different than the apparent compromise. I am saying that it is also a rare person that can continue to compromise without beginning to accept the compromise as normal. I see it around me all the time. I grit my teeth when I understand I am doing that compromise too. When you violate your integrity, it does negative things to your brain, it becomes easier to do again, and that is one of the main reasons I am strong on this issue.

It is such a difficult problem and I recognize it as such. Where to draw the line, where to say that is enough, no more, where do you finally say this shit I will not eat? Each of us as individuals is responsible for setting those positions. Is it our responsibility out of integrity to stick to it? And we haven’t even started to deal with the hypocrite on this issue.

You are using the idea of ‘giving in’ to include mental states that I was not trying to deal with. I understand the concept of ‘giving in’, ‘total acceptance’ to make a change in ones own behavior and attitudes. It is like being saved, have to have total acceptance and give in to the power of God idea. If that violates your integrity, I cannot endorse it. Which I think leads to the necessity of defining what integrity is. I say it is the adherence to a set of principles, codes, moral or ethical or whatever source, unerringly. When operating in integrity you are operating in completeness and undivided personality. I don’t personally know anyone that can do this all the time.

I am unsure how to deal with the terms conditional and unconditional acceptance and the concept of denial. The only thing I was asserting is that when a person habituates to compromises, in other words, accepts compromise of their values as a useful and meaningful way to live, that a state of mind most often is going to be reached where the process of compromise becomes the normal. When that happens, the person will then be in denial. I do not know how to establish the tipping point for this. We all do compromises to some extent, some more than others. I am entirely unsure at what point it becomes a damaging influence for that person and those around them. But, damaging it obviously is.

 
At 5:41 PM, Blogger RAS said...

Freeacre, I hope your father gets better. I'll send my best wishes your way and his for a speedy recovery and a safe trip.

In better news, I got to enjoy one of the delights and the benefits of real civilization today. I got a free ticket to see a live performance of Beethoven's 9th Symphony. So I went all the way into the city to go. Now, I'm not a huge fan of classical music; I find much of it to be pompous and overblown. But not this. There is nothing in my entire life to date that can compare to listening to an enitre symphony orchestra and 300 singers perform "Ode to Joy". Humanity has done some bad things in our short (relative) time on this earth -but we have also created some wonderful things.

 
At 5:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

mf...

exactly what i'm talking 'bout bro. that rage expression is EXACTLY what has to move.

the safest place to do it is in private. if we're going to take it "out there" we have to pick our battles. you were one on one with the village cop and then same-o same-o with the neighbor. i wouldn't try this at hartsfield. one size does not fit all.

murph... have words. but later... p

 
At 7:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

suggest everyone watch this interview of greenspan on 60 minutes last night...

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml

then go read what george ure has to say at urban survival this morning...

http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm

i have been getting the reports from cliff and igor at half past human and i can tell you what it sez in a word....

DIRE!!!

 
At 8:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are using the idea of ‘giving in’ to include mental states that I was not trying to deal with.

murph... help me out here. what did i say to lead you to this conclusion?

 
At 8:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Freeacre,

Our thoughts are with you. More words are not necessary.

Mrs P,

You are absolutely right, I was engaging in the sort of dalliance much beloved by politicians and sweet old ladies, neither of which I am. That is probably why I made such a mess of it. I see this whole world situation as a multifaceted crystal. There is only one crystal and there is only one issue. It doesn’t much matter, which way you hold it up and which facet is the object of your attention at any particular moment. The crystal is still the crystal and the issue is still the issue. What those in control of world events do is to show you a different facet every few weeks and by doing so people erroneously believe that they are informed but they never stand back and realise what it is they are really looking at. It doesn’t matter if you describe this face or that face, it is the same object you are talking about. Does that make any sense to you, probably none at all?

If you want my opinion on the missing nuke (slowly turns the crystal over and looks thoughtful), I don’t believe it is lost at all, I just think that people don’t know where it is. But believe me it will reappear in a blaze of glory and say “here I am, I am everybody’s worst nightmare”. The reason is simple, this administration desperately needs a war with Iran but there is one key element that is missing, a casus belli (a good excuse). A year ago we were told that even if Iran had all the centrifuges it needed and it had other than peaceful intentions, it was somewhere between five and ten years away from being able to put a bomb together. So if it can’t make one in the time, what better than to nick one whilst the sentries have gone around the corner for a quick smoke. Of course there will be desperate attempts to find it and they will be hot on the trail of tracking it down when………… I am sorry to be the bearer of such news, it is not what you wanted to hear and who says my opinion is worth anything?

After the successful enactment of the first part of the plan, 9/11, the process for bringing about a state of Martial law has been put in place. The missing nuke is phase two. Considering they have such callous disregard for the people, they do seem intent on doing things in the right order. I would have thought they would have rounded the people up anyway and skipped the bomb part but maybe abject compliance makes their job easier.

This is the cynical approach as opposed to the face value approach. There are other terms for these things, which I will tell you later.

The 10,000 is the number of Illuminati estimated by that guy who said that if they tied it on with Ron Paul the Chinese Mafia would start taking them out. I have never seen this figure refuted.

I still think your parents were examples to be followed, you were one of the truly lucky ones in this.

Murph,

I am with you on this one. Ones principles can be clear-cut but their application can sometimes be tinged with shades of grey, which can be rationalised in various ways. The more diluted they become the less significant they become in the overall mix.

Ted Heath, the Tory leader of the 60’s came into my mind just now. He never compromised ever, but ran his government by a process of conciliation, yeh.

Mf

Hot Springs is in for a hot time when you get on the council, that much is already clear. The cops had better start liking you and the sooner the better.
Your police story reminded me of a story told by the actor Robert Vaughn when he was pulled over by the shitty cop. He flashed his Man From Uncle badge and got a salute and waved back out into the traffic. It just proves it is all about relative power.

 
At 9:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey P,

What I was drawing from was your 6:48 comment a day or two ago.

"i didn't get sober until i gave in! giving in can be the opposite of compromise. its all relative to the experience at hand. one size does not fit all."

P, I am not hopping all over you. Not sure if you are seeing my remarks as personal attack, which is not intended at all.

I am making remarks that are a compilation of observations and study about human behavior I have seen around me and what people have said to me over the years. I have also tempered my remarks by saying that it appears to me that everyone does the compromise trip to some degree or another, I don't know anyone that never does it. What I am asserting from my own experience and observations is that compromise of principles and codes can become habitual by circumstances and the seeking of advantage, that we can live in a matrix of delusions by our compromising. I talk to people frequently that express their behavior exactly as I am describing. They are always compromising their belief of what is right and proper out of fear of reprisal, loss of job, or whatever reason. These people often appear to me to be thinking that this type of life style is normal and necessary for survival. Forgetting of course, that every time they are observed in this compromising behavior (often in the form of ass sucking) they are putting another stamp of approval on it. I have worked with people that do this kind of stuff as a matter of course. Yet when you talk to them they decry such behavior, never seeing themselves as indulging in it. Frankly, I can attest that I have really had some big disadvantageous experiences because I could not make myself do the ass suck thing, I simply could not make myself do the compromise trip with what I believe is right and proper behavior. I have also had the experience of backing down the power broker on issues because I would not compromise. Far more rare, but has happened.

I think, if I understand you correctly, that if one is completely aware of the significance of our actions at all times, that this compromising that I am hitting on so hard is acceptable in order to get on down the road. Right? Now, the key question if that is correct; Is there any human that can be that aware all the time?

I think it is sort of a Zen thing. We work at being self aware all the time, except when we don't.

 
At 10:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here's a bit more on the nuke thing.

/www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/
forum/viewtopic.php?id=7136

Sorry to copy this verbatim and submit it against policy, but I figured this is too important to follow protocol.

Minot Air Force Base Airman Died While on Leave
September 14th, 2007

Remember the one about the B-52 bomber that, according to legend, had six nuclear weapons loaded onto it by accident, which, of course,could not have happened—by accident—for a dozen different reasons, or more.

Airman 1st Class Todd Blue was assigned to the unit that provides security for that bomber wing at Minot Air Force base. He died while on leave in Virginia. No further details have been released.

Coincidence?

Was he on duty when those nuclear weapons were loaded onto the B-52, “by accident”? If anyone has any further information on this, please let me know.

I expected to see many more deaths of Minot and Barksdale Air Force personnel in the wake of this incident.

Have I missed any others?

Via: KXMC:

Authorities are investigating the death of a Minot Air Force Base airman who died while on leave in Virginia.

Base officials say 20-year-old Airman 1st Class Todd Blue died Monday while visiting family members in Wytheville, Virginia.

Blue enlisted in the Air Force in March of last year and joined the 5th Security Forces at Minot Air Force Base the following August.

Information on how Blue died has not been released.


On another note, Belgium, great analogy with the crystal.


Helen Waite is in charge of our credit department.

If you want credit, go to Helen Waite.

As in, the run on the British banks has begun, soon to be followed by the runon our own. Oldensoul and I withdrew all we could from our accounts Friday. It might not be worth anything, but it might be better than knocking on a locked door Tuesday morning.

This from the WaPo, recently updated:

Bank's Strife May Shake UK Confidence

By JANE WARDELL
The Associated Press
Monday, September 17, 2007; 12:21 PM

LONDON -- The panic engulfing mortgage lender Northern Rock PLC, Britain's fifth largest lender, may mark a watershed in the British economy by undermining the confidence of investors and consumers.

The surprise and rapidity of Northern Rock's plight have raised questions about how the potential impact of the collapse of the U.S. subprime mortgage market on Britain was so underrated.


An elderly customer, rests his head in his hand, as he waits in a queue outside a branch of the Northern Rock the British mortage lender in Harrow, London Monday Sept. 17, 2007. Shares of British mortgage lender Northern Rock PLC, hit by a liquidity crisis which sent customers lining up to withdraw billions in deposits, tumbled more than 30 percent Monday. (AP

Pleas for calm from the government and the mortgage lender itself again fell on deaf ears, as Northern Rock customers desperate to withdraw savings rejoined long lines outside its branches in Britain and Ireland.

 
At 1:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

And now, even more on the nuke story. Googled 'missing nuke' on the Huffington Post. This site was returned. Check out the linked stories. Feel that old familiar tingle go down your spine...?

http://www.legitgov.org/minot
_afb_nukes_oddities.html

Kudos, Lori Price!

I love how the "good guys" honor their own, except when they're expendable and it's expedient not to.

Hey, you two in Bend, there's been speculation the "incident" might take place south of Portland, since a strike there would take out a bunch of folks Bush has never been fond of and it would accomplish the terror requirements without actually destroying any critical infrastructure. If you can make it here, please don't hesitate to come. We've got food and shelter.

 
At 1:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

P, I am not hopping all over you. Not sure if you are seeing my remarks as personal attack, which is not intended at all.

not at all... more later

 
At 3:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think, if I understand you correctly, that if one is completely aware of the significance of our actions at all times, that this compromising that I am hitting on so hard is acceptable in order to get on down the road. Right?

no. what i am saying is i don't experience it as compromise. with the airport thing, which i consider to be a mild version of the police state tactic we'll soon all be challenged with, i don't feel like i'm compromising myself, my principles, or my integrity.

we can still argue that i may be in denial and that may be so but i don't think or feel so. i know what compromise feels like. and it don't feel good unless you consider you're in a pissin contest and you're loosing big time and then the worm turns and you suddenly start to win. but when its over all you got was part of what you wanted. you feel better in the context of gettin a little more. but in the context of the over all pix you still compromised and that my friend, feels like shit. or at least it does to me.

i understand what you're talking about and i agree with your analysis. that is generally what is going on all the time with most of us. and you hit d'nail on d'head when you said... They are always compromising their belief of what is right and proper out of fear of reprisal, loss of job, or whatever reason." and "... compromise of principles and codes can become habitual by circumstances and the seeking of advantage, that we can live in a matrix of delusions by our compromising." fear leading to compromise. that is delusional! it don't have to be that way. which is exactly why i say those emotions have to be gone down through. and what is amazing about that is when we do every judgement rears its head. all those principles, codes, so-called morals, and ethics... all that conditioning... come into question. now thats what i call freedom!! ...p

 
At 5:52 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Murph,

Found a discussion about free energy and 9/11 between Steven Greer and Jim Fetzer @

http://www.checktheevidence.
com/audio/911/index

Sorry, the url is so long I can't figure out how to copy and paste all of it onto this page. Look for a directory of listings. Original show was aired July 10, rebroadcast july 14. What little I heard sounded good.

 
At 10:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rockpicker,

I figured out a while ago how to paste a really big url in pieces to fit in the blog space. You highlight at the beginning enough to make a line and cut and past it, then the next section you do the same as the second line of the url and keep doing this until get the whole thing, usually a max of 3 lines. What I would like to figure out to do is make a link, then don't have to put the url in. lol.

 
At 11:21 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palooka,

Guess we need to agree on what compromise is. deff from dict. is;
1. to make a shameful or disreputable concession.
2. settlement of differences by arbitration or by consent reached by mutual concessions (key words, mutual concessions)
3. A concession to something derogatory or prejudicial.
4. to adjust or settle by mutual concessions
5. to expose to discredit or mischief
6. to make a shameful or disreputable concession.

If any of this is acceptable definition, I got to admit I see giving in to the demands of abusive authority that I see as not only hateful but morally wrong as being a compromise. What I see is giving in to such as one more notch up on acceptability. Is it morally responsible to make morally reprehensible behavior any more acceptable by acceding to it? This is of course a question that has been asked in one form or another for about 5000 years. Reckon we each have to answer it for ourselves as I haven't found any absolute answer yet.

Rockpicker

The site you mention has a hour and a half video. I just don't have the time right now to deal with it. Because I don't have streaming video, it would take something over an hour to download and then the time to listen to it. Boy would I like it if my DSL would do streaming.

 
At 6:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

murph...

i accept your def of compromise. :-)

and agree it is a form of giving in but disagree it is vice versa.

maybe we need to define acceptance. there are several. which on should we use? and if we each pick one are we just doing so to support our argument? or does it actually fit the subjective realities of the experience at hand?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/acceptance

i would pick #1. and then go on to say that is supported by attitude... "a complex mental state involving beliefs and feelings and values and dispositions to act in certain ways"

you might pick that too and then we debate interpretations. to which you might add #2. and then go on to say that is further supported by observable approval... "the formal act of approving" and then submit that that my actions prove it.

i would argue that acceptance does not necessarly invoke approval. and then go on to submit the words of FDR... "eternal truths will be neither true nor eternal unless they have fresh meaning for every new social situation

at least we're not compromising eh? :-) ...p

 
At 8:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, Folks, I'm back. Just thought I'd check in. Thanks for the good thoughts. My dad is hopefully getting squared away in this difficult period of his life. It's hard to get everyone on the same page - whether to go for "getting better" which requires more invasive procedures, making him eat when he's resisting, more discomfort, less pain meds, etc. or making him "comfortable" and allowing him to die a peaceful, dignified death. You'd think nobody had ever done this before, it's so hard. Just another example of our culture concentrating on the inane and ignoring the important issues.
Watching CNN in the hospital, I noticed that there was non-stop coverage of OJ and that bimbo, Brittany Spears.

 
At 8:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palooka,

LOL I guess we aren't compromising, except when we are.

Do you remember some time back we had a discussion here about how the meaning of words in the language change, usually by manipulation by the media? I have several generations of dictionaries in the house and it is possible to see this transition. The problem with talking to an old guy who is concerned about how the meaning of words change is that he is often using a much older definition or concept than is currently being used. I went to the web page and started to take a look at words that I know have been changed in meaning radically in the last 30 years or so. Interesting.

For sure I would agree that acceptance does not imply necessary approval; I may accept the inevitability of that sob torturing me but I do not approve of it as a good thing.

Interesting that you would tie compromise to 'giving in' but not visa versa. I think you will find that in classical literature that 'giving in' was associated with violating a value system, which I guess from an old farts position means compromising ones values.
My dictionary shows 'giving in' as: to yield under insistence or entreaty, to surrender.
lol.

So, whatever.
I think I understand your position on this, but for me, as an absolute, we either need a different set of words or I see 'compromise' more from an idealistic position. I think that the closest I can come to explaining this is to look at the Quakers and I think the Amish. There are quite a number of historical examples where a person would not compromise principle and got themselves dead. This morning the names won't come to mind. The Japanese culture was generally not big on compromise in any form. I think it is also a valid observation that compromise almost always comes from a less powerful position in any circumstance. At least I can't think of an exception right now. Those with the power don't compromise,ie violate their values.

 
At 10:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freeacre;

Glad to hear you're back home safe. Sorry to hear about your troubles.

Below, in follow-up to what Mrs.P brought to our attention, noise about put options due to mature in three days.

Again, if you feel compelled to make a road trip east, you're welcome here.


"Anybody have a clue as to what these 'investors' are expecting?

The two sales are being referred to by market traders as "bin Laden trades" because only an event on the scale of 9-11 could make these short-sell options valuable.

There are 65,000 contracts @ $750.00 for the SPX 700 calls for open interest. That controls 6.5 million shares at $750 = $4.5 Billion. Not a single trade. But quite a bit of $$ on a contract that is 700 points away from current value. No one would buy that deep "in the money" calls. No reason to. So if they were sold looks like someone betting on massive dislocation. Lots of very strange option activity that I haven't seen before.

The entity or individual offering these sales can only make money if the market drops 30%-50% within the next four weeks. If the market does not drop, the entity or individual involved stands to lose over $1 billion just for engaging in these contracts!

Clearly, someone knows something big is going to happen BEFORE the options expire on Sept. 21."

http://mparent7777-2.blogspot.com/
2007/08/45b-bet-on-another-911

 
At 1:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rockpicker,
Yes, thank you for the offer. In fact, I am aware of the put option expiration, as well as the web bot forecast for a big emotional release coming within the next day or two and all sorts of things, like tanking of the dollar, the nuclear wild card, etc. In fact, TODAY I am putting together the bug-out kit so that our money, deed to the house, last will and testament, and the assortment of survival gear, (crank radio, super lanterns and flashlights, dust masks,tent,stove, maps, etc.) are all packed in a nice, big Tupperware box we can just grab and head out in case of some sort of flash event upwind from us...)Thanks for the offer, it, of course, goes both ways.
And, my take on compromise and accommodation to or coping with fascist intimidation,is like my take on lying. Much the same thing. When you look at cultures that have been enslaved - the Jews and the Blacks - you will notice different things that they have done to deal with the intimidation. They developed or kept a language that they could use to communicate with each other that "the man" couldn't understand, they developed a sense of self-depreciating humor that would defend against the despair and anger and helplessness that their status as a hated minority entailed, and they began to judge their own strength by what they could endure (women do this as well). All of these are understandable and endearing to me.
But, whether you are Jewish, Black or female in a culture that discriminates against you (or are on the No Fly List), you won't be respected and you won't have much personal power until you decide that you are going to be honest, no matter what. When I began Science of Mind training to become a practitioner, I vowed to speak my truth from now on, period. Since then, my word has become a lot more powerful. I have, for instance, been fired four times from the Tahoe Tribune over speaking my mind to my boss over assorted issues. Each time, I was hired back eventually, and the boss was gone!
Anyway, we do what we can do. There are a lot of right answers. Some things are worth dying for, others are not. Personally, I prefer name-calling, sarcasm and clever insults and jokes to physical confrontation. Vulgar gestures are pretty high on my list as well... but, then, I was raised by a Sicilian.

 
At 1:42 PM, Blogger RAS said...

Hey all, has anybody seen the video of what happened at the University of Florida last night? Some kid was asking questions, and got himself manhandled and tasered for his trouble. And the cop that did it was smiling. No, I'm not joking. Turn on CNN or look it up on YouTube. Welcome to the police state.

 
At 2:11 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

IRS has gotten a District Court Judge to pressure We The People to withdraw most of the content on its web page. Oral arguments are being heard today.

www.givemeliberty.org

Been trying to locate an update on Capt. John Frueh's untimely demise. Anybody know what happened, besides initial reports, including "police do not suspect foul play."?

And how did Blue die?

 
At 12:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

murph... i find it interesting that one who doesn't cotton much to absolutes would be so absolute. :-)

My dictionary shows 'giving in' as: to yield under insistence or entreaty, to surrender. lol.

actually you make a good point. the question is, who's doing the insisting? it could be someone else or it could be me about me.

i liken the airport with battle where you dress like the enemy forces to do recon or get otta dodge or get through the line to freedom. whatever you have to do short of surrender or tipping your hand because its clear the force does not have my greater good in mind.

but then there's the personal battle with our own demons and the idea of a surrender to what you hope will be a higher, loving force because you've tried every damn thing else you could think of and even dreamed some new ones up along the way in the face 27 years of an uncontrolable obsession acting out as a form of your own destruction. the interesting part about that, and contrary to what the "experts" teach, is that once you surrender you get the freedom to choose back that you'd lost somewhere along the way. if you ever had it in the first place.

at least thats how it turned out for me and it wasn't until every bit of me was in agreement about the powerlessness and in alignment with the surrender that i was able to turn it over to a very thin thread of hope in the existence of just such a loving force. some people call this force god and then proceed to sacrifice themselves for the rest of their lives in the name of faith and doing what they think or some asshole tells them is god's will. and as long as its all about that and all i have to do is acquiese to that i really don't have to be responsible for my own actions and the idea of self forgiveness is just so much bullshit. maybe it is so for them but it didn't turn out that way for me. it took me 2 years to figure out that that's what happened and that god's will was for me to do my will. to exercise the personal power and the freedom to choose which i had been given thus proving to me that, yes indeed, such a force does exist, is loving, AND is intelligent enough to know what true, personal freedom really is. anything short of that would be a contradiction to the force of free will that i believe comes from that same loving force.

and anything short of that and you can pour me another drink!! :-)

i actually agree with nearly everything you're saying murph and it ought to be enough to piss off the pope. but then, i'm pretty sure he's on their side. ...p

 
At 3:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can to a certain extent understand the security threat system but when (and it is far too often) it is taken to extremes you have to bite your lip, I often start to get angry if I held up by some jumped up no body who thinks he has any rights to frisk people, I love my country and back most decisions, well some, maybe a few, but control is the issue here not security, the goverments elected by us (fools) want total control, through taxes, scaremongery, intimidation etc and 95% of people trot along like sheep, not even sheep, I do not know what we can do but something must break soon.

 
At 3:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Airports can not even control your luggage never mind terrorists threats, having security randomly annoy passengers is not the way to build loyality and trust but as you said the sheep love it.

 

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