Tuesday, May 09, 2006

Rant # One

I need to Rant, so here is Part One of I don't know how many. We are running out of time, funny things are happening to computers and sites these days. (right RP?) So, let's go.

George W. Boosh

I hate George W. Boosh. This likely comes as no surprise to regular readers of the Real Deal, but I don’t know that I have come right out and said it before. Now, I have. Hate is probably not a good thing to direct at another human being, but after much soul searching, I can come to no other feeling. I despise the man. I despise him from the bottom of my heart, and can feel no empathy for him whatsoever.

I have often compared Boosh to my former Death Row clients. I’ve tried to determine if he is any more stable than the majority of them, and I have concluded that, No, he is absolutely not. In fact, he has more anti-social personality traits than the vast majority of them. That is not a good thing for the leader of the free world. Understand, “anti-social” is the preferred buzz diagnosis of prosecutorial mental health experts. While a person may suffer from schizophrenia, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, or mental retardation, all of these can be mitigated by an “expert” who simply states that one is “anti-social.” You see, there is no cure for one who suffers from an anti-social personality disorder. They are simply bad people, with no fix in sight. They are also generally dangerous, and are incapable of feeling or showing remorse for any misdeeds that they may have committed. Unfortunately, and probably rightly so, it scares jurors to death. So, Death Rows all over the United States are filled with people who have rightly or wrongly been labeled “anti-social,” when another diagnosis may much more accurately portray their true condition. With the Booshman, anti-social fits him to a T.

Another thing about Boosh that I find problematic is that he is simply not very smart. Not very smart is much too kind. He is a dumbass. And actually, that is not problematic, more like pathetic and embarrassing. His little “cowboy shtick” is so tiresome that it would gag a maggot. That anyone, especially Americans, could fall for the BS that spews from this mans mouth, is simply mind boggling. Just yesterday, he received a letter from the leader of Iran. He was “briefed” on what the letter had to say. Briefed? How can you be briefed on a letter? How long does it take for Ahmadinejad to say “Up Yours, Mr. Boosh?" I know that Boosh does not like to read, except when planes are being flown into buildings and he has a 1st grade Primary Reader in his hand, but surely someone could translate it to English and he could read it himself. Well, on second thought, maybe not.

Iraq

During the State of the Union address, when Boosh uttered the now famous “sixteen words,” dramatically referring to “in the form of a mushroom cloud,” I nearly choked on my food. No one in their right mind could possibly believe that Saddam Hussein could have fired a “nucuulur weapon” weapon at the United States of America, nor loaned one to any terrorist organization to use. Absurd. Speaking of “nucuulur weapons,” how many years in the White House does it take before the President learns how to pronounce the word nuclear? It seems to me that before one accuses another of possessing something, he should at least know how to properly pronounce it. But hey, that’s just me. Maybe he’ll get it before the next “physical year” is up in September. I digress, and for that you have my deepest apologies. To this day, Boosh justifies the debacle in Iraq by stating that Hussein failed “over twenty times” to comply with UN Resolutions. Well, did he really? As I recall, the big resolution was an order to disarm. Since we have not found, nor will we find any weapons of mass destruction, be they chemical, biological or nuclear, one can logically assume that he did comply after all. Hmmm. What to say now? Well, Boosh is fond of saying that he invaded his neighbors a while back, and gassed his own people. The problem with using that line is that Daddy already had a war over those issues. So, how far back can we go and maintain any semblance of credibility? Not that far, I would say. Once someone has done something and we have a war over it, I think it’s a little late to use the same reasons as before to have another war. The only legitimate complaint that Booshco has about Hussein is that he fired at US Aircraft protecting the no fly zones. Not that any of their outdated weaponry got within a mile and a half of our planes, but hey, it’s something. I seem to recall that during the Clinton years this was a rather regular occurrence, and we didn’t blow Iraq to hell and back to deal with it. We simply used targeted air strikes and kept Saddam under reasonable control. And, we didn’t lose nearly 3,000 American kids in the process. But, maybe Clinton didn’t suffer from being an anti-social dumbass taking orders from God; orders to create a regime change and “win the hearts and minds” of people who don’t begin to understand our minds or our hearts. It is insanity, all of it.

The Economy

If I hear Boosh say one more time that Congress must make “his” tax cuts permanent I may throw something through my television set. He says he’s putting more money in the pockets of the American people. Well, he can keep the extra $5 per week that I receive from his tax cuts if he will make the top 1% of wage earners in America pay some taxes. Any taxes. What I receive from the Boosh tax cuts will barely fill my lawnmower with gasoline for a month. I think that is true for the majority of Americans. Meanwhile, his oil buddies are getting filthy rich and paying no taxes while becoming that way, along with most ALL other members of corporate America. He sells this package by saying that small business will be hurt by rolling back his tax cuts. This may be true, but what kinds of jobs are these people providing? I don’t know of any decent sized company that is not looking at relocating to someplace like, say, Mexico or China. The jobs being created by this administration are nearly all service jobs, and low paying ones at that. Health insurance is nearly extinct, along with the amazing disappearing act of pension plans. When the largest corporations in the country are reneging on pension plans, we are in serious trouble. And it is happening with the full backing of Boosh and the geniuses he has surrounded himself with. They all suffer from a bad case of tunnel vision, and that tunnel leads straight to WAR. We are building the society that I warned of many months ago, the great Industrial Military Complex. Let Hayden be confirmed as the Director of the CIA and we will have the military running every branch of government, thus bringing us one huge step closer to that prediction becoming a reality.

At the same time, our budget deficit is reaching such proportions that even the far right is having trouble sleeping at night. Don’t worry boys, take some Ambien, it will all be over soon. This economy is about to crash in a way that has never been seen before. Don’t believe it? Try selling a house about now, especially if you live near a coast. You can’t do it, and it is rapidly becoming the same all over America. The housing bubble has burst, yet we remain in denial. Why? Because the stock market says that all is well. In fact, it is nearing record highs. How can this be? Simply because it is being artificially propped up by the Fed and Wall Street, places where you could not possibly duplicate the numbers of buffoons involved if you recruited employees from the World Wrestling Federation. These people have bought the package, the total package, and are unknowingly taking Middle America with them. I say unknowingly because they refuse to face reality, the reality that the stars are perfectly aligned for a crash of monstrous proportions. Need a tip? Watch the price of gold. As the average American is sucked into the “rockin’ and rollin’ stock market,” watch what people with a clue are doing. They are bailing from the market faster than a sump pump in a flooded basement. The dollar is diving at a rate unseen since the Great Depression, and the Derivatives Market is at a place that has never been approached, teetering to the point of bringing the house down. And it will bring it down, sooner than anyone wants to believe. I have told you that we have reached the point of no return with our economy, and we have. You will not see this by watching daily trends, they mean nothing. Daily numbers are smoke and mirrors; (see the stock market numbers) the long term trends spell doom. All I can say is get ready, it will soon be over.

The End of Part 1

I see that this is getting long, and I have a lot more to talk about. I have no idea how many parts there will be to this Rant Series, but there could be many. I’m going to cover it all, at least while the “internets” still work. So, Fort Huachuca and usaaisc, hang in there, I’ll get to you eventually. Until then, I will leave today with a partial explanation, going back to where I started.

I hate George W. Boosh. I hate him because he is a simple minded moron who has advanced the failure of America by 25-50 years. He has done this by sheer ignorance, and unmitigated arrogance. What is soon to happen to America was inevitable; had to happen eventually, but not now. We could have played this game at least for the rest of my lifetime, maybe even my daughter’s lifetime. And, if we had somehow managed to get some competent people in power, some things could possibly have been done to change the course of the future. Unfortunately, it is now too late. The horse has left the barn, and it is not coming back.

In Rant # 2 I will address a couple of issues that should be the real reasons for the failure of America and perhaps the world, Global Warming and Peak Oil. Following that, Freedom of Speech, Education, Health Care, Religion, and many other topics need to be covered. But, for Part One, I will leave you with this.

Due to the actions of George W. Boosh, none of these other issues will likely come into play. It won’t stop me from talking about them, though. I’m certain that we will be history long before we run out of oil, drown in salt water, or, as a nation, die a self imposed death caused by ignorance.

Cyclone


“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”

George W. Boosh; Washington D.C.; August 5, 2004

101 Comments:

At 9:29 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

To All:

If anyone tried to get on this site this morning and saw a message saying that the site had been shut down, please send me an email and let me know. At least one person did, and I need to know if there were more. Thanks,

Cyclone

 
At 10:40 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Cyclone,

I got on alright at 13:00 hours EST. (That's 1:00 in the afternoon for those who don't understand military time. I wish to fuck I didn't, but that's my problem!)

Great post! Loved it! So many assholes, so little amunition! Fuck it! Bring it on! This administration has fucked the whole country with a barbed wire rubber and not a hint of grease! One way or another It's all going down the tubes! China is building the Three Gorges Dam and the will have it up and running in 2009. They own the note on this country and they will let Boosh keep printing his trillions of dollars a day untill he gets himself in a hole nobody can get him out of and then they'll pull the ladder out! I see it happening within a year. After the crash, China will let us stew in our own juices untill they get that dam finished, and then they'll rush tom the "rescue" with "foreign aid". By that time we'll be in such deep shit we'll take any rope that's thrown us! Bu then the dollar will be fucked and the Euro, a new Chineese based currency will be the international money of trade. After things get "better" the American market will be flooded with goods from China and "We the Sheople" will line up to buy! And China will have taken over America with one of our own tricks: "If you can't beat 'em, buy 'em!"

 
At 10:42 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

By the way,

All should read the letter from the Iranian President to Boosh. He actually makes some good points, which will surely be missed by this administration.

Cyclone

 
At 10:56 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

vper1 and all:

The letter can be found on CNN.com

Cyclone

 
At 11:06 AM, Blogger efsaturn said...

Well after reading that rant, it all left my mind when I read the bushism quote. He has no clue what he says, ever!

I with you, close to hate. I used to have some emphathy as I thought he was so stupid he was being bushwacked by those controlling him and he didnt' know he was being controlled, but now I know, he knows. He is their puppet, but being so he is the President of the USA and he loves that power. He loves signing laws and then putting in his caveats, well I approve it except for these parts that I don't like. He knows all too well what he is doing all for greed and power. So I'm with you there is no empathy for him. I guess God can have empathy for him.

And the lying continues. He keeps saying how great the economy is and the growth. Today I clicked on a link about the Tbond sales and it says that they soaring because our great economy. This is the worse case of denial. Actual lies that go against facts. I don't get it.

But to see that gold is the highest it has been in 25 years. There is no denying that. That I'm paying $3.20 a gallon for gas bec the oil companies close refineries in the 70's to make more profits.

I with you. Rant away. Get it all out.

 
At 11:20 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

My email address:

cyclone@cyclonesrealdeal.com

 
At 11:21 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

vper1,

Nice video. He's a creative fellow, isn't he?

Cyclone

 
At 11:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

stoney,
everything i'v bought for i don't even know how long has made in china,except one sheet rock hammer that had to be replaced because the kids were using it to improve their tomahawk practice,come to think of it ,two others that i had bought before that were both made in china and both had to be returned because of cracked handles,next one was make in usa and was a surprise and of very superior guality,imagine that!
man don't it feel good to be unintimidated by thoes assholes that think that they have us by the short and curleys?
cyclone,am sure glad you are brother,you give good campfire stuff,and gets me to thinking about things that i probably would not think about,because i've lived in the bush for so long.
no problem getting to site.
don't know why they would want to shut this place down,it has to be very amusing to their smugness thing.

cyclone,you were attorney?

peace
montana feeman

 
At 11:33 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

montana freeman,

No, not an attorney. Just a defense investigator. The only non ex-cop investigator in the country, I believe.

By the way, Gold hit $700 for a short while today.

Cyclone

 
At 11:43 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Damn Cyclone, I thought I was the one that blew my top!!!

Great piece, and excellent qoute. That's one I use a whole lot.

Only one thing I gotta say...

I'm still waetin' for Bushy to go on a huntin' trip wit Cheney.

 
At 12:28 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Montanna Freeman

I left a reply on the last post about Bush and me on the deserted island. The good news is I live! The bad news is he don't!

Yea I spent some time as a guest of the North Carolina Department of Correction myself for the exacy same reason! Three men can read and write now because I was there. Another is alive now for the same reason. I'm not bragging here, just showing you that the Great Path has many twists and turns and that not all of them are easy, yet all of them bring us all to where we are. All we can do is to do what good we can, wherever we happen to wind up, and pray none of them lead to a deserted island with George W Bush!

Preace and long life to you, My Brother! And may the sharp stones of your path be behind you, leaving a smooth trail for your feet to follow!

Oh yea! Could you ask The Great Owl what the deal is with this damned rooster he sent me? The poor thing crows at three in the morning and seems to have no sence of time! Perhaps it's the work of that old trickster, The Coyote! If it is, tell The Great Owl it works for me! I'm somewhat a trickster in my own right! And that he and all his kind are welcome in the place that I am!

 
At 1:28 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Just read the letter on CNN.com, and have a question.

Does anyone find it odd that the president of Iran sounds more American than our president? That is one big damned shame! It also didn't pass me by that he seems to have a better understanding of the Bible, as an Islamist, than Bush does as a Falwell Christian. That's not really as surprising.

Maybe instead of being briefed, he could read the letter and take notes!

 
At 2:26 PM, Blogger cyclone said...

Reality,

That was why I wanted people to read it. Boosh could learn a lot from it, but the administration (Condi in particular) has already shot it down as unacceptable. Like I said, tunnel vision that leads only one direction. Rather sad, if you ask me. The Iranian President is at least versed in world religion, unlike the dry drunk. I would guess that Boosh is as much a Christian as necessary to garner the votes of the Fallwellians. But, he may someday be forgiven. A difficult thing for at least one of us humans, (me) who finds forgiveness difficult at the moment. Anger and spite is much easier to come by.

Cyclone

 
At 2:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My sentiments exactly Reality,

It has been said that they are both nutters but it is clear that one wrote that piece and the other had to have it explained to him so I think we should reassess our levels of nutterism.
Iran is attacking Bush’s self professed religious ideals and saying “Is what you are doing the attitude of a good Christian”? And yes, the Iranians seem to have a better understanding of Christianity than does Bush.
One thing I picked up from this is Ivadinnerjackets assertion that he is a man of the people leaving the unspoken question hanging of ‘When was the last time Bush pressed the flesh of the poor or even the middle classes’.
Rice’s response (should have been Bushes) was a predictable “You have skilfully avoided talking about the issue which is pissing us off. Talk about that and we will listen to you.

Anyway Cyclone, I suspect that the President of Iran has beaten you to the punch over your future rants. It should be considered an honour to let a president of a country make your points for you. It might be an idea to invite him to do a guest posting for The Real Deal.

From Belgium

 
At 2:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cyclone,

I read that letter twice and you're right. It makes some excellent points. The very fact thet Bush has tossed aside in his obcene manner proves without a doubt that he hasn't a clue as to the manner in which these people live.

Iran could be a valuable ally in the so called "War on Terror", of they could be a deadly enemy. What is sure, they cannot be dismised out of hand like Bush is doing now! An olive branch has been passed. Now it is the choice of this administration as to whether that symbol of peace will be accepted, or tossed back imn the Iranian people's face! One thing that we should be aware of is that the world is watching us now! And no nation is an island!

 
At 3:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I finally took the time to read the letter from the president of Iran. What a hoot. He indeed sounds more Christian than our leaders, church and state. Even if the letter has an agenda outside of the message, it is still a good message. I have absolutely no doubt that it will be ignored, probably to our national shame and detriment.

 
At 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

fantastic idea belgium,man that would stir up some shit for sure,knocks on the door,?in the middle of the night? that would be one sure way we would all be gathered together in one place!!hell would that be fun,?we have men in black in other countries,belgium could come too,on one of thoes white broken down 727's that leak oil, i know i'v been in one of them and the pilot after we landed at some little abandoned airfield with grass growing in the cracks ,got off the plane for exercise and you would not believe this nut,this is the truth boys so help me,this guy was skipping around and around all the us marshals suv transports,the guys at the windows were cracking up,but then at some point realized that this fucker was flying this bucket of bolts which they had confiscated from some drug dealers,and god only knows when the last time




it had had a checkup!!!i swear oil was dripping out of one of the engines!! i saw it,and we were all shackled to the floor with chains.the guy had to of been on some kind of drug to act like that! and further more i never saw a copilot either and we sat sat on that runway for a good long while,as a matter of fact we had mystery meat sandwitches served up by this really good looking chick and would come down the isle and rub up against the boys as she passed out that crap which was supposed to be food,i swear she put her knee right between my legs as she passed over a sandwitch to the guy sitting two seats away!goddam don't you know it made me forget all about the dripping engines and the frutcake that was about to put us five miles stright up!!man i never had acid that good.shit i think i slipped off the topic boys,o well,cargo arrived and its one of thoes really swell evenings for sure amoungst the clouds of heaven sent.forgot to say she really smelled good to,one beautiful u.s marshal and about seventy dudes chained to the floor.what a fucking trip.guess you figured out the damn thing
never crashed but don't you know there were some pretty white knuckles along the way.sorry to drift like that but just had too,blame it on the feds.by the way what's with the little wheel chair at word verification?

peace
montana freeman

 
At 7:22 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Cy,

I, unfortunately, have some experience with the more extreme Falwellians (mostly Robertsons) crew and I can certify that bushy is right up their alley. These are the guys that call the left behind series prophecy! Some of the sickest puppies in the country are from this bunch!

Maybe the Military should give those "evil peace mongering" Quakers a break and go out to Kansas so they can spy on these sick shits protesting soldiers' funerals for a while...

 
At 8:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cyclone,

I forgot to mention that when the site went down earlier, what came up on my screen was the design specifications for the page layout.
First attempts took forever and would not load past 17% and later this was reduced to 2%.

From Belgium

 
At 3:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

i will never give up oldensoul,not even after my last dying breath,good idea for mothers day will put it out for response,good to see your words again,
montana freeman

 
At 4:02 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

anonymous 2:56,

You are correct. Boosh says that "Iran has a choice whether or not to choose isolation," when in fact, the choice is ours. In the end, the USA will be the isolated party, not Iran. He says the world is behind us? What world, outside the imaginary one in his little head? Ask China and Russia about that, for starters.

Cyclone

 
At 4:07 AM, Blogger cyclone said...

Reality,

I plan to soon? (scheduling, you know) address the Falwell's, the Robertson's, and religion in general. Against my better judgement, of course. I have avoided it thus far, but, like I said, the gloves are coming off. Some will be surprised by my revelations, I'm sure, but the end is near so it no longer matters. I just hope people don't abandon ship when I come clean about myself.

Cyclone

 
At 7:19 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Cy,

Bring it on!!! I can always recommend that, if someone really wants to understand just how bad they are, they rent the videos on justice Sundays I and II and the christian coalitions annual Washington rallies.

I should mention, in case O'reilly is reading, that this is not the beginning of the war against Christianity. That would be the war against myself, since I am an evangelical myself. This is the beginning of the war against a sadistic assholes attempt to do horrible things in the name of christianity, to accomplish his own goals through someone elses blind faith in his message."

As far as the truth about yourself, a new view of you as a person does not change what you put forward. Your message does not change.

 
At 8:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.mideastweb.org/ahmadinejad_letter_to_bush.htm (Unofficial translation)

Interesting letter it makes a lot of sense, shame on the US government for dismissing it out of hand, but unless the letter had been an invitation to "take all the oil you need" and "please forgive us for being Iranian". It was always going to receive that sort of treatment. In my opinion, the casual dismissal and refusal to respond demonstrates that the US administration is actually frightened that this letter puts forward some reasonable points which they would find difficult to argue against.

I really like the idea of asking the Iranian president to post here.

 
At 9:11 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Has anybody's email been taking an awful long time to sign in or is it just me?I kinda hope it's Big Brother! if it is he's got some really nasty shit on his hard drive right now!!!!! My son is a sneaky little shit after my own heart! He put an evil little surprise on here for anybody that tries to acces my email from any computer beside this one!

 
At 10:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is obvious to me that the administration is going to dodge the moral/ethical questions that the letter put out. Which makes sense in a way. The conduct of this administration has no moral or ethical guidlines and to address that means that they would have to also address their policies and actions within those guidlines, which of course, they are not going to do.

It appears to me to make a very sensible conclusion that Bush and his crew are not going to behave or walk the walk that they profess. That makes them consumate hypocrites. They have no moral or ethical sturcture for guidlines, rather only a sense of expediency of the moment with the sole emperative to remain in power and expand the empire. They most certainly are not following anything taught in the New Testament.

The fact that this seems to be so true, it amazes me that they can garner support among the supposedly Christian followers. I guess that doesn't speak well for the 'Christian' community of this nation.

 
At 11:16 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

In the last World War both the Axis and the Allies had God on their side; talk about being in a no loose situation. It seems to me that rivalries are biggest when the differences are small. For instance different religious sects can develop stronger dislikes toward each other than toward atheists. Communists and Trotskyites are more antagonistic to each other than either are towards Conservatives.

Bush on the other hand preys on his knees and on his people.

As for your own story Cy, it is what ever you feel good with, you tell it or you don’t. Over the months I have come to trust the honesty of the person I know in the blog. Without knowing what it is I don’t know how I will react but I can say that I once old a colleague that I thought a third person was two faced to which he replied “That is not necessarily a bad thing”.
“Oh”.
“Yeh, someone can wear a business suit, collar and tie for work and this is all his colleagues know. Out of work he may go biking and slob around in leathers all the time so the people in each part of his life see two different faces but that doesn’t make either one of them bad.
He knew that was not what I meant but thinking about it afterwards I grudgingly admitted he had a point. Maybe there are times in our lives when we react differently to different people.

Aho.

 
At 1:58 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Murph,

The question is not whether he has the support of the Christian followers, but which ones.

Calling Robertson's agenda the Christian model is like calling Osama Bin Laden's followers outstanding members of the Islamic religion. For any group of believers, there are varying degrees of belief, and varying degrees of manipulation of the faith. There are always those willing to pray on the weak, and the suffering, to get what they want.

You want to see an example of what I am saying by one of the most well recognised evangelical Christians in this country, the read "Our Endangered Values" by Jimmy Carter. He makes an VERY good case, for any faith, about what is wrong with that bunch.

 
At 3:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reality,

I do understand what you are talking about. Sort of a 'not all Christians are born equal' kind of thing?

I have some very dear friends in Mich that are devout. We argue a lot, but I actually have a lot of respect for his position, one of very few people of such faith, that I know, that I can say that about. The problem that I do have is the fundies and evangelicals that I meet, hear and see most of the time. They are hypocrites, savage, believe themselves pious beyond belief, frequently have no idea about what they believe, can quote but have no understanding of what they quote, operate within themselves in fear and want everyone they come in contact with to be the same, they lie, they covet but the worst is the hypocrisy. They do not walk the talk, or even come close to it. And, I also realize that in any philosophy or faith, you make the walk, except when you don’t.

I know, if for no other reason than my good friends in Mich., that there are people of faith out there who with honesty and with integrity do the walk. I respect that. It is the preponderance of those I meet that do not that I rail about. I find it particularly onerous in the leadership of this country.

 
At 4:11 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Murph,

Sounds like you are deep in the "bible belt." I know a lot of people recovering from there. It is an issue of exposure. These people are told from the time they knee high to a grasshopper the standard lines that they are to hold.

You ever hear the phrase "that's the ways it's always been and that's the way it'll be?"

They are taught that anyone who thinks differently cannot be correct. They a raised in an environment that tells them that the man behind the pulpit has the answers, and that if they believe that he is correct then they are fine. That is a hard mentality to break. Kind of like the bandwagon approach in advetrtising. May have mentioned it before.

It uses a repetitive and slowly evolving line that sinks in deep. Eventually they end up blindly repating the line. A powerful marketing trick that can be extremely effective, even dangerously effective in the case of something as deeply seated in the heart as religion. It sneaks in unnoticed and is almost impossible to break. That is why almost all of the most hypnotic extremists in history have used religion. It is also why these same people use art to the same effect. The jokes about the Jesus and Elvis on the wall are not as far from reality as you may think.

 
At 6:28 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Reality,

I live in Saluda, North Carolina! Be lieve me! They are fact! I know a guy that has a wall with pictures of Elvis and Bush with a picture of Jesus in the center! I still haven't figure out how this fair skinned man with the light brown hair and aqualine nose is King of the Jews! some how I think they got a picture of the wrong man. This guy looks Dutch to me!

 
At 8:11 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Stoney,

I've spent many a day over by Greensboro, fayetteville, and by Alamance among many others. You are a brave man to even bring that subject up. I know the reaction to disagreement there.

 
At 10:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rockpicker,

I like that story. Cute.

Reality,

I certainly would not call Oregon the bible belt. I lived in Arkansas for 10 years and THAT is bible belt. Where I lived there, and in the 1980's, talking about religion and politics could get you into a fight in a heart beat. If you ran for school board where I was living, you got your friends together and your opponent got his together and you faced off across the road and went at it. Last one standing got to run for the office. I'm not kidding, was for real.

While the bible belt people are bad enough, at least they are real in their devotion and see no contradictions. I am talking about the sophisticated church people up north and in this community. One of the evangelical churches here hold periodic bushwhacking activities and think nothing of it. The call them Lady's night out and Men's night out. Completely dishonest and and an observable contradiction of scriptures. The lady in charge of the promotion has done it this way for years and can't imagine why anyone would be offended by their actions. These are not southern hilbillys. they are sophisticated college educated people.

Now please understand that I am not taking pot shots at any particular church or theological line of thought. But I will take offense and be highly critical of individuals that suscribe to one code of behavior and do otherwise on a continual basis. Those, due to their religious belief, that want a posting of the 10 commandments should also post the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount and, yes, even the golden rule. You sure aren't going to see those posted in the lobby of a courtroom or over the doorway of congressional conference rooms and most especially outside the oval office.

I hear these people over and over proclaim that this country was based on Christian theology. That is patently not true. Most of the founders of this country were deists, not Christians, and there is a big difference, even though both believe in God.

Yes, I have been in homes with wall hangings of Elvis and Jesus, truly depicted as white bread. And, as previously stated, I don't have much fault to find with someone that walks the talk. But thier speaking from two sides of their mouth is unacceptable to me, especially when they adversly affect other people's lives.

Personally, I have run the gamut of religious indoctrination and found it wanting. But that is just my conclusion. I have been accused of not having had the opportunity to spend enough time with those that do walk the talk, and receive their instruction. Perhaps so. And it is also possible that I am lacking for that. I do however make a concerted effort to live my life in integrety, that is, I walk my talk, except when I don't, and thank God for friends that will call me on that.

 
At 8:51 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Rockpicker,

I'll be laughing at that lttle story for a while.

Murph,

I guessed wrong about who you were talking about. Unfortunately, you are correct that the world is overrun with hypocrites. Their two sided approach to life goes well beyond religion, though. There are a lot of people that believe the rules are for eveyone else, and never even consider their own actions. These people have never, and will never, think about anyone but themselves. I actually pity them for they can never be happy.

I also will say that it doesn't matter what your religious or moral (or absence of) beliefs are as long as you feel that you are a better person for them. There is not a religion in the world that doesn't promote health and peace. There are very few philosophys of any kind, that do. That comes only from mis-interpretation.

As far as the bullshit lines about the American Theocracy, I have put more than one piece on this on my blog. Those are some of my strongest posts (with the exception of the one going up in ten minutes). I am vehemently against the idea of religios integration, and I have historical documents piled past the ceiling that prove that Theocracy was the LAST thing any of the founding fathers wanted!

 
At 9:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rockpicker,

I have a very interesting question for you.

Should you expect others to do unto you as you would do unto them?

Curious From Belgium

 
At 10:13 AM, Blogger Reality said...

rockpicker,

I'll also cry over the poem....

 
At 11:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes we should all cry over the poem but here is something more harrowing.

Towards the end of May 1989, Chinese students protesting the lack of civil rights occupied Tiananmen Square and stayed put for almost two weeks in a stand off with the government. On the night of June 3/4 the government’s patience finally snapped and they ordered the military to clear the square using tanks and semi automatic fire. A massacre resulted and in sheer revulsion the now ousted students were complemented on the streets by a reported excess of one million of the population.

On June 5, extra tanks were ordered into the Square in a show of strength. As they rolled in one lone, unarmed, very brave student stood in front of the leading tank and refused to move. The whole world is familiar with this image. Well almost. Earlier this year seventeen years after the event, a reporter named Antony Thomas revisited China to try to find the Tank Man, and discover what happened to him afterwards and how his life had worked out from there.

Not only could the Tank Man not be found, but students at Beijing University were shocked at the photographs of him since they had no knowledge of the incident. It had effectively been erased from Chinese history.

The message is clear. Beware of those who are empowered to represent your interests

From Belgium.

 
At 12:18 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Belgium,

"Oh, that is just not a fair comparison because that would never happen in America. Our leaders are fine, upstanding, and wonderful people who show us every single day how much they care. Why just today our wonderful king, oops.. president, told us how he cares so much that he has created a database of tens of millions of phone numbers used by all those dirty terrorists. That's why we are doing all of this; to fight the terrorists over there instead waiting for them to come here, other than those millions that are already here according to Curious George's database..."

We are a nation of idiots. In a nation of fools, Bush really could be a King. What a damned mess!

Grumble, Grumble....
Reality

 
At 12:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reality,

Like you said.

From Belgium

 
At 6:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

just got to reading the iran letter,dude really put bush in the shitter,
nothing personal guys but if i had the power i would burn every single religious book in the world,woops,here it comes,and who here would do the same ? there must be at least one other that sees the healing of such an act.if it must be i will stand alone on this,but don't we have a right to a voice to present?there is a reason,right?

in absolute peace i stand before it all.
aho
montana freeman

 
At 7:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow Montana,

Book burning now? lol. Men are pretty creative, if by some magical event all religious books were burned, I am sure more would be composed. Not so sure book burning is an answer to apiritual problems. Maybe is throwing out the baby with the bath water? Not so sure either that behavior of mankind would improve with that action. Personally, I reckon I am not supportive of book burning, record burning or removal of any information source as a means of censorship. Sorry man, that one I can't go along with.

 
At 8:50 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Montana,

Can't really support you on that one, but I can mention that you are in interesting company. Let me hand you this one to chew on...

"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there was no religion in it." -John Adams in letter to Hefferson

For reference, He is Robertson's favorite person to mention as supporting Theocracy. HMM, wonder if Robertson ever actually read any of Adams' writings...

 
At 9:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Belgium,

Is that a loaded question?

I'd say the word 'expect' packs some heavy pragmatic baggage. How's about we 'hope' that other's will treat us the way we intend to treat others, and let everyone beware?

BTW, having trouble posting. Says my password is incorrect. Rockpicker

 
At 5:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montana Freeman,

I think your sentiments are in the right place but like Murph said not your method of gong about it. You see, this has been tried before albeit the other way round and we know what happens. The Spanish Inquisition for one burned all the science books and it didn’t halt the progress of science. In fact recently, the Vatican has grudgingly admitted that Galileo might have had a point.

If there are any people in the Bible belt reading this then you had better skip to the next comment if you don’t want to be offended.

There ain’t no God. There I have said it. If you are offended then I am sorry.

Also, like Murph I respect and can empathise with people of sincere belief, I just believe they are misguided.

Scientists have a cute trick; it is called resolving a difficulty by giving it a name. I will give you a little for instance by way of explanation. Temperature of any substance is caused by molecules vibrating or colliding together and releasing frictional energy. The scientists Joule and Thompson found that when compressed gas is released from a cylinder (or aerosol) the container gets cold but they didn’t know the reason why. We now know that since the remaining molecules of the gas are further apart after some is vented off they don’t collide so often and so the temperature drops until they gradually absorb heat from the outside world. They observed it and called it the Joule Thompson effect. This then allowed other scientists to use this effect to develop refrigerants without understanding the fundamental principles involved.

Similarly, archaeologists tell us that civilisations from pre history also wondered about the world around them. They puzzled over the motion of the heavens; crop growth; crop failure; disease; life and death. When no rational explanations were forthcoming they resolved the difficulty by saying the answers must belong to some higher power and they invented God which then allowed them to carry on. Whenever crops failed or people became sick appeals for help were made to God. Certain of them became the intermediary between the common folk and God and found that this elevated them to a powerful position amongst their peers. The ceremony or ritual became important to make the people content that God had their ear and also to secure the priest’s position.

Modern society is infinitely more complex than ancient times. The more people abound the lonelier individuals can become. If these and others who have the need to reach out but find no outstretched hand to hold can find comfort in a spiritual belief, whether it is a solitary prayer; chanting plainsong at the new dawn or shouting Halleluiah Brother at a revivalist meeting, then I for one am not going to stop them. In this sense the sacred can have meaning to those in need of such comfort. In my view, it is when religion attempts to be ‘relevant’ to today’s society that it looses its way.

Still we should not burn the books. That is only a reflection on us not theology. The more we believe in ourselves the less relevant they will become.

From Belgium.

 
At 6:01 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Belgium,

Why the hell are you appologizing? You are sorry because someone is too thin skinned to handle the fact that you believe differently? Don't ever do that man, it just ain't necessary!

One point, though. You are bordering on a dangerous ledge with your argument. You always have to be careful with religion and science. The reason, they do not cross paths. Religion was never an aqual to science, but a totally different quest. Science answers the question "How did this happen." Religion never really covers that. Religion answers "why."

As to religion and the power of position, that's why every tyrant in power claimed an inherent right by God to make the decisions, to be the "DECIDER." They could justify horrible acts that many wold submit to, because it was for the greater good. Makes you wonder what "greater good" we are headed for here...

 
At 8:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Reality,

Your first point, OK.

The second point, the link was examples of resolving a difficulty by giving it a name, which I am sure, was not lost on you.

The third point, like I said earlier, both Britain and Germany claimed to have God on their side during the last World War. I think you as a nation should tell your leader that you don’t buy his God and he can stuff his greater good and see what he does with it.

Rockpicker,

Wasn’t that a loaded question, I will tell you why I asked it.
For the moment we have the daughter of my wife (not my daughter) and her boyfriend living with us whilst they build a house from scratch about two miles away. I don’t mind this and agreed to it because we want to give them a start and help them along the way. I think this is normal He is affable and generally sociable except, as Murph would say, when he is not. I have been down to the building site to help with big jobs when asked. Things like helping with the steel for the foundations and lifting concrete beams into place. It was always assumed that I would help with the general time consuming background things; moving bricks to where they are needed; mixing mortar, keeping everything tidy, and I don’t mind doing this stuff. The problem is that he is such a selfish arse that if something is wanted and it is for him, it happens right away but if it is something for anybody else they can wait forever and then some. My wife says the sooner their house is liveable in, the sooner we can have our ‘privacy’ back, on the other side I don’t want to feel pissed on.

Ach relationships! I think I will do a few token hours now the season has turned and decide from there. This is just a rant, I am not particularly expecting an answer to this although I wonder what the Anarchist perspective is to this one? Ach!

 
At 9:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

murph,reality,belgium
thank you for the comments,i will add a little something to the previous comment,but will wait a bit to give forth why i would burn all the religious books,at the risk of going stright to hell[thats really funny]huh?
i would also burn all the rags called flags,...after that was done there might be no need for a white one,would there?
you know i am not a man of letters,but i have eyes to see and its really not that difficult if the interest is there.
will continue if not ostracized on this,because i may really upset some religious people before i'm done.there is defintely a reason for going this route so if you choose to counsel with me i would really appreciate it,i can use all the help i can get,

the people that are locked into their belief systems need not apply,but should,if there is one speck of curiosity in their heads in regard to why the world is so fucked up!!!

aho
montana freeman

ps.belgium i have the identical thing going on in my house right now except its a daughter in law,man my heart sincerly goes out to you in supreme pity.

 
At 9:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

lol...I can empathize with Montana Freeman. Bibles or texts of different religions were not written with either an Indian or female readersip in mind. Also, they have been usually used as a justification to abuse us as well. Wouldn't burn the books, though I am tempted to throw them at people sometimes...
How's this for the beginning of the sacred, Belgium? Early man and womankind began to follow cattle around and so regularly encountered the psychedelic mushroom. They injested them and were blown away by a sense of connectedness and beauty and harmony and joy. They became sensitive to each other's feelings and thoughts. Their minds speeded up and they began to have all sorts of insites and new ideas. They became grateful for this great gift which they sensed was from the Great Mother Earth Herself. This "religion" persisted for thousands of years in its many forms until the time that men came along and began to write things down and break the connection between the earth and her children....

 
At 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just an aside...
Many years ago, my step-son, his wife (a hick from Texas) and their newborn moved into our tiny apartment and slept on our livingroom floor for six months. She spilled her 48 oz. Dr. Pepper almost everyday on the carpeting, which then mixed with the ashes from her cigarettes that never made it to the ash tray. It was an excruciating experience. Thanks for reminding me. Wish I could say something positive about it. Some things just suck.

 
At 10:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montana Freeman and all,

I was reminded of a line from a song by Billy Bragg from the album 'England Half English' but it didn't seem relavent to the last comment.

"Put all the history books in the corner,
But don't throw them away,
Because we might learn how Anglo Hyphen Saxon,
Became england dot co dot uk".

From Belgium.

 
At 10:50 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Concerning Religion,

Mankind evolved from apes! There! I said it and I don't appologize for it! The way an ape deals with things beyond it's scope of understanding is to throw shit at it! Don't believe me? Go to the zoo, and duck a few turds! You will!

Now we come to mankind! The way Mankind deals with things beyond it's scope of understanding is to throw shit at it! We inherited this trait from our ape ancestors! Since it seems to be too much trouble to throw our own shit, man uses the turds of the male gender of the bovine. Who's vegatarian diet, and three chambered stomache produces enough shit for everybody to take a turn with a turd! They would sit around the fire and make up wild tales to explain the unexplainable. The best story was elected to be the "truth"

All this went on for a while untill one day an investigative soul decided to munch some pretty, spotted mushrooms growing out of a pile of the aforementioned bull shit, and sat with a glazed exression on his face while all manner of indescribable things danced for his entertainment! After he rode this trip to the end, he prevailed uppon his fellows to likewise eat the "magic" fruit, and everybody took a rollercoaster ride into the psycadelic world! Things required for survival became saddly lacking because with everybody sitting around in mushroom land, the fire went out and great toothy beasts gobbled up the blankly staring populace!

Other groups watched these procedings. Some decided the psychoactive plants were evil and avoided them like the plauge!

Some of these people went on to worship fire and rain, and the seasons and other works of nature and gave these things names and asigned gods to them who much be appeased. They would sacrafice to these dieties to earn their favors and secure the blessings of a rich crop, fat livestock, of a large family to hunt, farm, and gather when they themselves had grown too old to do so. Since Woman was the sex that could procreate and bear children, most of these dieties were seen as female, since only the female could bear life.

Some thought that the mushrooms and other psychoactives were themselves holy and they were the key to the spirit world. Certain individuals were chosen, or chose themselves to munch mushrooms and relate to the people what they had seen and to imform the comunity of the meanings of these things, and how they related to the comunity as a whole.

Other people saw that they could take sticks, and rocks and kill the shit out of their neighbors, and take whatever goods they needed instead of producing or hunting for them on their own. Their gods were all male, for the most part, and as such were very warlike and war itself was worshiped, and made to be holy because it furnished these people with the things they needed to survive. In some of these civilisations, only those killed in battle were worthy of going to the highest plane of their afterlife, so death in battle was something to be achieved above all else!

Others worked their asses off to secure their survival and took great care to train their young in the martial arts to protect what they had produced against those that would kill them all and steal them away! Their gods were for the most part fatherly male dieties that would smite them if they went against the code of the comunity and ruled pretty much by fear.

This people is the evolution of religion! Every religion on the earth uses one or more of these concepts. Like it or not! We make our god or gods in our own image! They are us and we are them!

And I hate to tell you Montanna Freeman, but burning all the books won't make one bit of difference! We had religion long before we had books! And we'll have it long after!

 
At 11:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montana Freeman and others commenting on this subject of religion,

Montana, I sympathize with your dilemma. You see a great fault in conduct and thinking that has its basis in religion and patriotism. I agree. Both patriotism and religion are used to control populations, doesn’t have to be that way, but it is. If you attempt to get rid of both concepts, you will fail. There is an aspect of humans that seem to need to identify with a group, call that patriotism. There seems to be a need to explain the why of life and that is religion. Neither are destructive in themselves. It is the manipulation by those that like power that is the problem, which is true of most of human endeavors. Atomic energy is in itself not a bad thing, it is the use to which it is put and how it is implemented that causes misery.

The history of Christianity is full of abuses and cruelty. Your culture was a recipient of this so you have legitimacy in pointing to it with anger. Those that have belief in their religion will minimize the bad aspects and maximize the positive aspects. There is nothing strange about this, and all cultures do it, including the Native Americans. One of the great problems I see is when we cease to examine the bad side of thinking, when we do not recognize the evil we do with our thinking, when we cease to examine the consequences of our thinking and the actions we take. Great evil has resulted from the most sincere good and beneficial thinking we have throughout time.

The examples of this are so numerous: large volumes have been set in print detailing what happened, how the original intent was distorted, manipulated to cause harm. Christianity is no exception, and neither is the Constitution.

Which brings me back to my main thesis on this subject. The value system of whatever population or society we wish to talk about is the determining factor in how that society will organize itself and the conduct of its people will tell you how those values are implemented. This society in its present form is the result of how the people think, what they value. We are all at fault. ALL Of US. Some more, some less perhaps. We have attached importance to values that have resulted in what we must live with now. Namely, I am referring to our assigning decisions over our life to people that are more than willing to do so. As citizens we do not share in this decision making process, we just think we do, because we want not to be bothered with the process and for the most part, never have wanted that. We depend on the good will of those we give this power to. It is always going to turn out inequitable; it is always going to be bad for some proportion of the citizens. If you have read the Old Testament, you know the story of the Jews pleading with God for a King. God advised the Jews that it would be bad for them. They kept pleading and so God granted them a King. Well, you know the result of that, what we got today.

This is why I advocate an anarchistic life; each person is king unto themselves and responsible for the consequences of their actions. You would not assign to another the decisions for your life, but you are responsible for your actions. The rules for the social organization would be simple indeed. You cannot harm another or their property and you are responsible for your actions. Those decisions that affect all must be by unanimous agreement, otherwise you don’t do it.

This is not to say that there would not be problems, in any group, there is always going to be problems. It is how the problems are dwelt with that is important. This society has been a miserable failure, over all, in how it has dwelt with problems, as has been the history of most civilizations. We must find a better way, a different way and a better set of values to operate with.

 
At 11:43 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Belgium,

I would boil the difference down to one thing. Science has peer review, religion has interpretation.

Freeacre,

I would point out that many societies and religions have put woman at the head. The Bible also has at least one book written by a woman. Woman are considered the pivital point in life and love by the brightest people in the world. Only the dumbest would think otherwise.

Stoney,

The Catholic Church has supported the teaching of evolution in schools. I would agree with you about evolution. Nice touch fitting in the evolution of religion. I'm sure alot of people are squirming right now.

Murph,

Let me say that you always sum it up well.

----

It seems that we are all saying the same thing from differant angles. Let me try to put it another way to see if we are all on the same page, but different lines.

I would propose that religion and patriotism are just the easiest thing to point to as the problem.

How many times have you seen someone do something absolutely absurd in the name of Communism, or Capitalism, or Family, ad infinitum? The problem is not with any of these issues.

The problem is that there is always someone who will approach any issue, including science, looking not to find answers, but to support their own bias.

In all of these cases we mention, the single common factor is someone who is not looking to improve life or liberty or knowledge, but to find support for a biased argument. It is always someone who cannot see past their own self-interest.

You don't need religion, or books, or patriotism for that goal. You just need someone ignorant, lazy, or blind enough to follow you.

How'd I do?

 
At 12:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reality

Pretty well, I think we all got to the bottom of the page together although I missed the dotted line where we could vote for you.

From Belgium

 
At 2:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Naw, now don't burn the religious books. We might need them to wipe our asses pretty soon.

 
At 2:56 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Belgium,

Summing up what everyone here says doesn't make me a good candidate. It's just sorta like making talk soup. No special skill required. I am not gonna run for anything. It is not were I would best serve. I would gladly volunteer to fill in for any reporter scheduled to interview any of our existing leaders, though, ESPECIALLY King George. That be fun!!!

Besides, before you vote for me, you better see what I say on my OWN blog. I am usually pretty nice here...

 
At 6:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just got in from work. Going back out shortly. Haven't had time to read all the new comments yet, but I wanted to inform anyone in the vicinity of Bozeman, Montana, there is a peace rally scheduled for Sunday, in Bozeman, beginning at Lindly Park, on the east end of town. 12 noon. Music and oratory 'til 2:00 pm, then a march down main street to the courthouse.

Wish you could all make it.

Still can't post using my handle. Says incorrect password. Rockpicker

 
At 7:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, we stopped one years ago,
we can do it again.

Carried signs down to the courthouse
with our friends.

Got high and all tuned out,
got busted when we sat in.

But we stopped one years ago,
and we can do it again.

(sung in the style of John Prine)

 
At 9:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reality,

I gather that you take the stance that science is the answer? If true, I would like you to consider this. Science is the methodology of determining how much and how it works. It is a quantifying technique. It does not answer questions concerning humans and how to live together. In fact, when we come down to basics, all of man's knowledge is based on faith in some form. The attempt by science to define an objective reality has failed miserably, and always will. For always, there is another layer to reality, always. You know that we are at the point that we change the very thing we observe by the action of observing it. We can never make a difinitive statement about what we term reality. What science can do is answer questions that involve engineering and making. But, in the end, that is all. To expect more is only going to frustrate us because in the end, science is based on faith also.

 
At 9:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reality,

I gather that you take the stance that science is the answer? If true, I would like you to consider this. Science is the methodology of determining how much and how it works. It is a quantifying technique. It does not answer questions concerning humans and how to live together. In fact, when we come down to basics, all of man's knowledge is based on faith in some form. The attempt by science to define an objective reality has failed miserably, and always will. For always, there is another layer to reality, always. You know that we are at the point that we change the very thing we observe by the action of observing it. We can never make a difinitive statement about what we term reality. What science can do is answer questions that involve engineering and making. But, in the end, that is all. To expect more is only going to frustrate us because in the end, science is based on faith also.

 
At 11:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Singapore

I read from www.whatreallyhappened.com that US Bush popularity is 29% now and Ross is about to get convicted, there is pressure to bomb iran just like Clinton order strick in Sudan to prevent reporters getting close to Nancy. Do you think Iran will be attacked in next 2 weeks ?

 
At 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Grand jury meets today

http://www.choicechanges.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=575

If Rove is indicted it means iran will be immediately bombed, what is the chance of it HAPPENING?

 
At 6:38 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Murph,

That is a timeless question, and I'm not sure anyone can sum that up well. Seeing as how I don't mind offending a few people, though, I will give it a try.

I personally believe that Science can answer many questions, and is much more than faith. Science can provide concrete answers to many things in life. It can answer numerous questions about things suach as how the universe formed, how life evolved, how cellular mytosis works. Always how. Science is a tool. It is a means to an ends, but never the end itself. Science can never answer why.
The problem with this arises when people expect more than that, when people expect Science to be a religion itself.

I choose religion as the why, and I do believe it provides an answer. I also believe that religion, like science is a means to an ends. It is a quest for understanding not a recipe for lifestyle. I believe I understand why everything Happened (and happens) through religion. Other people choose different religions, some people choose strict philosophy, or humanism, or atheism. It all boils down to faith here. Religion is faith in what we do not, and cannot, see. It is the elusive why itself, in any form you choose to believe it.

There is a third item in there, that intertwines with both of the previous ones, and causes all of the problems. Interpretation is the problem. As I said, science provides answers, but it does not provide solutions. Religions provide reasons for our paths, but we will always stray from where we should be.

There will never be a true answer to our problems, People will never wake up to the fact that they are the problem. People will always want to blame an external source. People will always sink into the habit of thinking of themselves first, and thinking short sightedly. There is also the problem that things outside our control can change here, too. Mother earth can decide to change the playing field at a whim. There will never be a true answer to the question of how to live life from any source, but there can be an effort to stay on course to the right place.

I firmly believe that, regardless of your beliefs, life is a journey. Whether you include religion or science or whatever else you cannot change that. There is no map, but you can look at the direction you are headed, and change course as obstacles appear in your path. We will always stray from the best course. We will always have obstacles which require a change in our path. The only problem we face is fighting the urge to ignore what is in front of us. To ignore where we are headed. That problem will always be there.

That is the best that I can do to explain that one. Sorry about the length...

 
At 4:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium.

Reality,

Now is it my turn. I was once concerned about the length of a post so I sent it to Cyclone by e-mail and asked him to moderate it. He gave me a written rebuke and posted it as was. Remember although we are all friendly here, this is not a chat room so if you have a point to make, start at the beginning, develop your thoughts and finish at the end and don’t apologise if you need many words to express yourself properly.

Science provides the explanation of how natural phenomena behave.
Religion provides spiritual fulfilment and a moral code for life.

Scientific premise assumes there are no unknowable things, only things which are unknown and although some scientists would claim to have all the solutions there are many things which are still lacking answers and some things we now know can never be solved. For the latter part of his life Einstein tried to fit all the different branches and sub branches into a cohesive whole and as yet nobody has managed to pull it off. If Standard Theory as it is known, is supposed to look like a thoroughbred stallion then it finished up looking like a camel that is undergoing plastic surgery. Sensible explanations have not yet been found for the nature of gravity or why magnetisms energy is never depleted but it does not need an act of faith to believe an explanation will not be found. Heisenberg however, through his uncertainty principle told us why science cannot tell us all of the answers which leads us on to religion.

Religion provides a comfort zone for feelings of incompleteness or insecurity for unknown answers but it seems to me to throw up more questions than solutions. For instance, out of all the billions of species which have a life force, why is there only one which can find redemption and continuance on some higher plane after death. Are we to believe that because a tree or a tiger cannot differentiate between right and wrong or recognise and give homage to some higher being they cannot have the same salvation as a human and if this so then why should they be created at all? This is just one example of the many questions which the major religions have to grapple with but really provide satisfying answers.

Sitting between these two great philosophies are the so called pseudo sciences. These are things which appear to have some scientific basis but in fact are not sciences at all simply because their fundamental parameters cannot be completely measured. These are things like economics and sociology to give two examples. Whilst we can calculate compound interest to many decimal places and apply the law of supply and demand, the thing which really drives the economy is the intangible concept of confidence which is the scientific equivalent of faith. Because now people are questioning the secret relationship between the Executive Branch and the Federal Reserve and the former has instructed the latter not to publish figures for M3, confidence is dwindling in the world reserve currency and good old supply and demand has driven the price of gold to $700/ oz.

Similarly, whilst sociology can measure demography; number of newspapers per 10,000 of the population and many other things on a macro scale it does not have satisfactory answers for why some person would buy a gun and decide to wipe out a school or in fact what should be done to prevent such things.

Yes life is a journey but we should stay alert and make sure the driver stays at the controls.

This is a long post and I am too tired now to deal with interpretation which is a main part of your theme, so until tomorrow.

Aho

 
At 4:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The last sentence of the religion paragraph should read:
“This is just one example of the many questions which the major religions have to grapple with but rarely provide satisfying answers”.
That typo gave it the opposite meaning than was intended.

From Belgium

 
At 7:20 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Belgium,

I agree with you with almost everything there.

I do believe that a universal field theory of science can be found. Hawkings is close to an answer there. I do not, however, believe that we will be able to really understand it. This could possibly lead to a whole new line of phychiatry!!! (had to go there)

As far as religion, it appears that your comment is directed at Christianity/Islam/Judaism in particular. There are several religions which do not follow the line of salvation, or the man as holy being only line. Some religions don't even have god(s). Religion is a VERY broad group of different beliefs.

As far as christianity, what I know of my religion does not follow what you are saying. That issue is a matter of in-depth discussion and timely study, and not something which could be doen well in a blog.

What I can say is that there are many people whose religious beliefs go far beyond providing moral codes. There are also many people who would not find their religion spiritually fulfilling, but very trying. I would be in the first group, but not in the second.

The one question for you, If you say that science cannot answer everything, that there are things beyond the realm of science, then what would you call its study? Aren't you teetering on a line dangerously close to religion?

 
At 7:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Singapore

I also wonder if the group of 8 islamic countries that support Iran as reported in today's newspaper, will it result in delay of US bombing of Iran, as Bush has to consider his islamic friends such as Turkey, Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia etc... Or will it still occur in June or even in May 2006, as predicted?

 
At 10:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, we can all think about religion and science and philosophy and whatever... but all this thinking does not seem to be able to elevate the consciousness of the criminals at the helm or affect one iota of change. I don't have a frigging clue, Singapore, if Iran is going to be bombed. Stan Goff has written a series of essays that are quite inspirational about this march that went on lately by Vietnam and Iraq veterans against war (on From the Wilderness). Funny, I didn't seem anything of it on the nightly news... All kinds of shit is going on and we only see little pieces of it. But, even full-time commited people mobilized, marching, organizing, etc. are not making it to the news reports even though Bush 's ratings are 29%. The Corporates seem to want to keep the message going, Bush or no Bush. Maybe they'll just off him because he's becoming a liability. I really don't have a clue. Cyclone, what have you heard?

 
At 11:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium

Reality,

The long answer short is that I don’t know.

If we consider an atom of anything, it consists of a cluster of positive relatively stationary particles in the middle called the nucleus surrounded by a cloud of much lighter negative entities called electrons which have energy of motion. The idea is that the energy of an electron balances the energy of a proton and so it stays stable. Lower energy electrons can exist like planets around the sun only encased in a spherical orbit. Other higher energy electrons exist in a volume of space like eggs with their thin ends pointing into the nucleus and so on. Higher energy electrons can compete for the same space as lower energy electrons but similar charged particles will try to avoid each other like the similar poles of a bar magnet. What Heisenberg mathematically proved was that you can know the position of an electron exactly but you cannot then know its direction of motion or if you know this then you cannot say for sure where it is. In other words some phenomena have an AB answer and you can know A, or know B but not AB. It is not beyond the bounds of reason to recognise the possibility of other things like this and this gives the lie to the statement that there are no unknowable things, only things which are unknown.
There is a branch of mathematics dealing with series but every a term in the series is solved there is a remaining bit left over which needs another term to solve it and so like pi there is no absolute answer.
I do not know what you would call the study of these unknown things and whether it needs an act of faith to comprehend them. It is indeed a mysterious quest and one which is unfortunately too big for me to answer but Stephen Hawking might have cracked a few more levels of the game than I have.

This was a long winded and rambling ‘don’t know’ I am afraid.

I am going to be away from the computer for much of today so may not see any comments until tomorrow.

Aho.

 
At 12:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Freeacre,
Thanks for bringing us back on subject, probably the most relavent comment on the post.

Belgium

 
At 7:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

freeacre,
i dreamed that i was dancing around a fire and in the fire were bibles and flags that i had thrown in there,and behind me were christans and patriots as far as the eye could see,in a circle also around the fire,and in one hand they held a bible and in the other hand they held a hangmans noose,and in their eyes there was love,shining,like scabs on an AIDS patient,just waiting for me to wake up so that the party could begin.
and then i woke up,the full moon was just setting,the robins were singing and the sun was close behind getting ever closer to bringing life to us all once again.

you know the burning thing was an idea to garner some points towards something much more serious,remember draft card parties? god were they fun,a child saying fuck you to there insane parents,one longs for thoes days i can tell you that for sure,
when boys were men and men were retarded assholes and the girls were having bra burning parties,and we on the one hand were hooping it up ingesting anything to see god or flashing lights,or something,and on the other hand had a sense that something enormous was happening just at the very edge of awareness.

i keep hopeing that that revolutionary spirit would return in the young and maybe it is,but if it is it sure as hell isn't sticking its head out very far,
get with it you young fucks,what are you afraid of,someone might shut off your goddam IPOD??

anyway the point, and if there is one at this point,
man you guys have loaded up this comment page with so much information one does hardly know where to start,i thought this would be simple,fuck was i wrong!!

religion,... ok,first of all personally i could give a shit less what anyone believes,i mean you believe in jesus i believe in frogs that eat ice creame cones, and so help me if you don't come to my ice creame cone parties i will sic something on you and you will see the light of ice creame or,else,ok?
that has got to be one of the most stupid senarios one could think of,
but its true!!!

and the point being ? that religion divides people,one from another,
and that is the whole point,how simple can it get and so impossible to see!...to actually kill a brother or sister or babies or whatever,all over an intellectual idea,get this,forced upon you by some shumk that knows that by controlling your mind,thereby your pocket book,and everything else that has to do with human behavior,the priest,preacher,will have played his or her part in this gigantic illusion.
i would hold my sides and keel over laughing if it were not for the fact that the suffering continues with each bible sold.

i say piss on the bible,piss on the koran,piss on any book or person that has the idea that they can control me without a gun pressed against my head,and that goes double for my children,AKA,the baby prisons called schools,where the secondary mind control shit takes place after the primary mind control shit takes place called stupid ass parents.

so thoes books as long as they exist are gateway doors to everlasting mind control,

this leads me to an interesting question,what would people do without the books of so called knowledge? now wait, one looks at the world full of every kind of book containing all of humankind endeaver and what is the result of that endeaver,?well it has led to the world as we know it,DEATH,DESEASE,WAR ON A SCALE UNIMAGINEBLE,THE EARTH INFESTATED WITH POLLUTION,AND OF COURSE PEOPLE KILLING EACH OTHER OVER A FUCKING BOOK! you bet your ass, i say burn the sons a bitches and start over,there is no way in hell it could get any worse then it is now!

anyway whats left after whats coming probably won't make any
difference,you may be able to go to the moon but that won't stop you from stabbing your neighbor in the back and neither will the book.

please accept these words as ravings from one of the desturbed,i mean no disrespect and i know you bunch of nuts will laugh with me on this,

peace to all of us,and may the spirit keep and nourish all the mothers that bring forth life in this barren wasteland,that we as men have created and poison our children with.

you are right freeacre,that there could be more like you on this site,happy mothers day.

why do i get the feeling that the spirit smiles at what we have done to our playground??
peace to you brothers and sisters,
i go to eat ice creame cones with my brothers that jump with joy.

aho
montana freeman

 
At 7:39 AM, Blogger Reality said...

Damn Montana,

Good way of making your point. I especially love the iPod comment. Gonna laugh about that one for a long time...

You know guys, it may be just me but Rove is spending so much time in front of the grand jury that I am starting to think he is part of it! I really wish he would just get it over with, file the charges on Rove, and move on to dumb and drunker so we can watch a REAL power struggle...

 
At 10:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montana Freeman,

Wow, what a comment you have made. I really do understand what you are talking about with ideas, books. I had a short time when I sorta felt the same way. I read a lot. Some for pure entertainment, but mostly to increase my perceptions and way of looking at our world and those that live here also.

I suppose we could go back to passing information to the young by oral means alone. I think it is possible that it may be forced on us anyway. Unless it is forced on us, I don't think it will be done voluntarily.

Personally I do prefer the ice cream parties with frogs. Much more fun. Wisdom can be found in the strangest places. Even the insane have a story to listen to.

I would disagree that information, in books or by any other means is what causes the problems with humans. It is how we view that knowledge, what we decide to do with it. That man decides to use it to increase misery is a shame, the thing that makes us something less than human. Man has always tried to understand his surroundings and to some degree himself. I really can't believe that getting rid of what we think we understand would make us better. It comes down to the value system that we use when we examine this knowing. What I would be in favor of is throwing out most of our value systems and starting over on that.

Yeh man, it is true that humans kill each other over ideas. That is one value system that can be junked as far as I am concerned. It's bad enough to kill over self defense. But ideas? Give me a break.

I also keep looking for the revolutionary spirit to return. Right now, the battle is mostly being fought with words. That will change, just don't know when. Don't you think it strange though that the fight that gets physical will then be over ideas of how people should live together? We will then be engaging in the very thing you criticize.

Just finished a book that has an interesting idea. Have a society where MYOB is a favorite word to use, means Mind Your Own Business and the statement, “I Won’t”. In this society all relationships were voluntary, nobody told anyone else what to do because if they tried, you could say “I Won’t” and they couldn’t make you. Their justification for this was that this is what is called freedom. By definition it was an anarchist society.

 
At 11:28 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All

Lilac says ...

I do not burn books, I am a reader, I am a life long student.

I read a lot of fiction and then forget it. I read opinion and consider it. I read history, science, and news.

I leave phlosophy for reality to read.

I believe every thing I read. And then I look down at my pool of knowledge for facts. Like any cesspool, shit floats to the top. Scrape it away and some kowledge is left. I use it to form my beliefs and then I speak it and listen to those who challenge me. I do not find answers, I find opinions and beliefs and that is what I live by.

Maybe every thing I have learned is wrong, but I tried to understand, and live by the standards I learned.

I am sure that in the world I live in that is not the standard of others and I oppose them and always will. Our government is run on a standard of oppression and I oppose it.

I do not know what the future holds but I always live with hope. The crash of our society will happen, slow or fast, it is coming. We can only hope to build something better from the ashes. I am really sorry that I am to old to partake. I really do see future possibilities even if the road will be very tough.

OK so call me an optomist, that would sure be a new title for me. But I do believe a better world is still possible.

Lilac

 
At 11:47 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Humm... a couple of times when things just got real bad and I was feeling very low, I went to my circle and we did a ceremony with drums. I expressed what was going on, then drummed. And when it felt right, I called out, "I call my spirit back!" And, I did that several times, each time louder than the last, until I was screaming at the top of my lungs, "I CALL MY SPIRIT BACK!!!" Until it worked. And it did work.
Maybe, Montana, it would work for you to take whatever books have been oppressive to you, and go out and burn them in a simple, private ceremony. Just burn the fuckers and declare, "I am free of you." I think it is always good to set yourself free of lots of things as they come up. Fire is good for setting all those molecules free to become something else...
Murph is taking me out to the gravel pit shooting range for Mother's Day. Maybe I'll bring along some token broken electronics or annoying books or items and use them for target practice. That would be emotionally satisfying as well.
aho

 
At 2:32 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

freeacre'

It's more fun if you set them on fire first, and then shoot them. Bring along some balloons, a tank of presurized hydrogen, a pack of those little gopher bombs that you can buy from the feed store, some light string or heavy thread, and a pack of cigarettes. Fill ten ballons with hydrogen and tie knots in the necks. (sorta like we all wish we could do to George Bush!), tie the ballons together with string and attach a gopher bomb to the string about an inch from the balloons. Light a cigarette, break off the filter and insert the the gopher bomb fuse into the lit cigarette to give you a 5 minute delayed fuse, use a small piece of thin masking tape to hold the cigarette on to the fuse. Release and watch the sky! Lots of fun!

 
At 2:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lilac,

Even some novels have something to be learned from them. It is one reason I like the 70's & 80's Sci Fi, not the fantasy. It authors did not feel constrained in exploring how society could be organized different. Some of their insights I find delighful and worth thinking about. I find the new Sci Fi to be torpid, insipid and very poorly written. Their imagination seems about 20 cm beyond their nose. I think they write because they get paid by the word and that is about it. A fairly hefty amount of the older Sci Fi deals with anarchistic types of societies which of course interests me, looking at how it might be done.

I also find a very large proportion of all new novels to not be worth the time and most I get through a couple of chapters and get rid of it. Sometimes I will come across a gem.

I find it interesting that you like history. I read a lot of history too but find it to be so slanted most of the time as to not be very instructive.

Science has literally left me behind. The science journals have gone so deep into esoteric physics that I simply do not have the back ground to understand it, same with the math journals. The natural sciences contain mostly speculation presented as facts which I object to but still find them interesting.

I have flat out given up on reading the popular press for contempory news. I just don't waste my time on it. There are so few investigatory reporters out there that I can't trust the media and what they say about much of anything. Although once in a while I will pick up a gem or two, usually on the web where it seems the the most reliable info is put up.

I'm with you that there can be a better world. Of course I am into the value systems that need to be changed to make it so.

 
At 2:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stoney,
I love it. Hydrogen is a bit hard come by around here. So have to improvise with carbide crystals or acetalene.

 
At 2:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Murph

Yes I like novels and a good one can make you think or get a headache.

I think I have read everything that Asimov and Arthur C Clark ever wrote. Modern Science fiction gets to magic on the third page and then I put it down, I am not into fantasy or vampires.

Have you noticed that when Wells and his fellow Sc-Fi writers wrote at the turn of the century, they always saw a great new future, Usually starting about now. When Sturgeon and his fellow pulp writers were writing their outlook was mixed.

When Clarke and his contemporaries were writing in the fifties and sixties they wrote of disaster around the the year 2000 and then recovery and new growth centuries later.

Sometimes I just have to switch to Zane Grey and Louis LaMore, in their novels the good guy always wins.

Today, one of my favorite writers is Bill Bryson. He sees fun in today's world. Some times you have to take time to laugh.

Like I said, I like to read.

Lilac

 
At 3:21 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Murph,

Acetylene will work for the bang but I don't know how light it is or whether it will lift the baloons. I'ld make ten with acetylene and ten with helium which is easy to get. That should get things off the ground nicely!

 
At 3:29 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Lilac,

Don't know how I should take it, but I will assume leaving the philosophy is a signal of trust in my philosophical understanding and interpretation. Even if your meaning is otherwise, it would server my needs best to feel that you have developed some confidence in my development (existential joke for the newbies).

I always thought I was the brave new world type. You quote Clark to much to be an optomist. Maybe, one day you can borrow my rose colored glasses and see the world anew...

I really can't believe that no one jumped on the chance earlier. I kept quoting religion and giving political follow up, and not one of you chewed me on it, although Belgium did start to before he dropped it. Come on, guys!! Where's the fun!!! How'd you let a hole like that pass without throwin somethin in?

 
At 6:04 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Lilac,

I lobbed in an improvised flying explosive device! Does that count for nothing! Hell! Bush might even see it go off and hide under the bed for a while and give us a break! Probably never work! God knows that he would find something to fuck up under the bed, and a way to fuck it up, too!

I'm not making a general claims about the existance, or nonexistance of God, you know! It's just that, if I know, we all know, so it goes without saying that God would know too! If he exists, that is.

 
At 10:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great rally in Bozo today.

-rockpicker

 
At 11:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A peace rally in Montana is encouraging. Wish I had been there.

 
At 1:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Belgium is still busy but taking time out to keep up with the commentary. Just a couple of fatuous things before I find the time to think seriously.

If George Bush has a divan bed the ground clearance would be just right for him to hide under.

I also wonder how the good folks in the bible belt would react if they suddenly discovered that God was black and lesbian?

Aho.

 
At 9:49 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGH!!!! See what happens when you don't cover all the bases! Alright! Let's try this!

I'm not saying God exists or doesn't exsist! He/ she/ it would know the painfully obvious thing that I post yesterday, which I so obviously forgot!

Shit! We've got 94 comments on this post! I wonder if we can get 100!

 
At 1:02 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

If anybody hears that Karl Rove got indicted Friday, it's bullshit!

I know! I know! I was taken in too and danced for joy at about 1400 hours EST! I checked it out and found it was a rumor. Sure it's a buzzkill, but we know that it's just a matter of time!

AQs far as Iran getting bombed when Rove gets indicted, I just don't buy it! Oh I don't put it past Bush to try! But I think wiser heads in Congress will prevail. The Repugs wouldn't DARE try something like that right now! After the election in a lame duck sesion they might, but not now!

Besides, we just don't have the forces nessesary to pull it off unless nuclear weapons were used, and that would set off a firestorm never seen before in the history of Mankind, and start Civil War 2 in the United States!

I think Karl Rove is going to have to take one for the team on this. He might squeal like a pig while he's doing it, but after all the scandals this administration has been a part of, nobody would even care unless they anounced it in the middle of "American Idol"!

 
At 6:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"...And that's the way it is, goddammit!"

 
At 6:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"i would also burn all the rags called flags,...after that was done there might be no need for a white one,would there?"
Same reason I have lost interest in sports. Way too much them vs. us; win at all costs. The them vs. us syndrome starts at earlier and earlier ages too.
Amber

 
At 7:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's really disturbing to me is the ROTC in high schools. I don't know how big it is in other states, but out West, it is HUGE. Kids, boys and girls, join it and get a uniform and practice marching and drills, and go on trips, and get fed a bunch of patriotic programing. Then, they get to feel like part of a team, and get promised all kinds of perks, like an education, etc. These kids, for the most part, are from one parent families who are working class, and don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting an advanced education without some assistance. By the time they are 18, they are all set to join up. It's unconsciounable. Next I envision, Halliburton or other corporate summer camps - to shape these kids into mercenaries who will live in corparate barracks and be part of some macho, paramilitary outfit to have a job when the economy collapses and the corporate scum needs body guards and their own troops to commit assorted atrosities. It could get real ugly for the kids...

 
At 8:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

will someone go wake up cyclone? this page is getting so long i feel like my computer is going to tip over!!
MYOB very fun idea,give it to the kids and let'm go,very sweet,
freeacre i have had bible burning parties with the young kids,we set around the camp fire,i explain to the little brats what the book is all about and then tear out a few pages and pass it around,you would not believe the looks on some of their faces,you could tell the ones that had had the the serious indoctrination already about the asshole called god,their reluctance to rip some pages for the fire almost made me want to bash the fuck out of their teachers of what has to be.man it really pissed me off to no end.....you see thats the goddam point,it starts with the young and they are forced to live with the fucking evil of that book!!!!! i mean thats their ENTIRE FUCKING LIFE!!!and further more they have to pass that bullshit on to their kids!!! and on and on,
if you have never burned a bible you have missed out on one of the most important things that need to be experienced in this fucked up fairy tale called life.seriously,have not one of you never done this? please say it ain't so,you will not believe what will come to the surface of the mind ,and the full knowledge that our entire lifes as a society is composed of the rules in that piece of fucked up trash!!would just one of you do this ? promise i won't tell on you,ok? gather some kids for the party too,it is a humble beginning and the sense of pride in the kids faces of knowing that they have commited the sin of all sins and survived in the presence of an adult to boot is a once in a life time event,please do this just once!! if you never do anything else that has a real meaning.
the bible is the most published book in the world,they will not go extinct!!! to bad for that.

stoney you ole dog, i will pass on your excellent recipe to the young'uns ,you will become the hero of the villege,and i will probably eat some dodo for it but me and bush just say ... bring um on..fuck putting that assholes name in this comment,scrach that,,

freeacre,
the shooting range for mothers day ? damn he is one lucky son of a gun,will he let you use his ak forty seven? murph i wish i had neighbors like you guys ,come to think of it i do have neighbors like you guys,

reality ,
wish i could understand your humor,its over my head obviously,if they got more then three sylables i'm lost.

started this piece of nonsense this morning and had to roll to the hostital for another stress test,beings the computer had a wrong preset or some such,anyone ever had one, they hook you up to an i.v and slam the juice to yea so the heart goes lickity split while just laying there,very weird,but necessary for pre op,its nine hours later here in broke back mountain country and tired is rit all over,

rock picker,
wish i could have made it to the peace party in bozeman but it was out of the question,bet it was a good one.let us know the details
would you? damn,missed a chance to meet one of the monkey wrench gang!!! and we both live in montana,that really sucks to the max.

peace people ,big smile from montana,
montana freeman

 
At 8:04 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Freeacre,

Corporations already have their own little schools. They are called "charter" schools or "school of choice." Their school, their profit (at kids expense) OUR dollar.

Stoney,

I would never guess that a "Deliverence" reference would come out of N.C. Only you, man...

 
At 8:07 PM, Blogger Reality said...

Montana,

You're with me (even when you think you aren't)...

 
At 9:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the salvation subject, consider this.

Believe & God exists - Salvation

Believe & No God - No salvation

Don’t Believe & God exists - No salvation

Don’t Believe & No God - No Salvation

With a 25% chance of winning out, this is even worse than George Bushes chances of making it.

From Belgium

 
At 10:33 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Folks,

Anyone have a post they want to put up? Have no idea where Cy is or when he will be free again to write. He must be busting his ass. I have a post started but I am busyier than a hound dog scratching fleas right now. I will try and finish the post as fast as possible. Problem is with time to do a bit of research for it.

 
At 4:37 AM, Blogger Reality said...

I'll see if I can think of anything...

 
At 8:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Montana Freeman,
When is your surgery scheduled? I'm sure everyone joins me in wishing you a rapid recovery. Soon you'll be able to hop with the frogs!

 
At 8:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From Belgium,

Too true, they can also put moon springs in your knees.

Aho

 
At 11:29 AM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Freeacre,

When half of the cast from that movie are your neighbors it ain't hard!

Montanna Freeman,

Good luck on the operation, man! Take it easy afterwards and give yourself a chance to heal. Let the kids take care of you for a while!

Cyclone,

Miss ya dude! Check it out! 107 comments on a single post! Not bad for a blog!

Rockpicker,

Get yourself PUBLISHED!!!! I loved the story and offer an alternative, somewhat happier ending! I know as a poet you sometimes lean towards the dramatic as all great poets must, but try this! The boy changes his brother's loaded diaper, and the last line is "The future is in deep shit unless THE PEOPLE GET OFF THEIR ASSES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!

Belgium,

Have some waffles and "freedom fries", and wash 'em down with a nice cold "Bush"! Yea I know that Brits drink their beer warm, but try it cold for once, it ain't bad!

Efsaturn

You got to read the Bush quote BEFORE the rant! Bush has a evil power! Any time he speaks people forget what they are doing, or thinking, and wander around glassy eyed and mind-fucked! Even reading his quotes can cary the same effect! Fortunately thaough this power decreases after a while. Marijauna is a the only known treatment against it and is to Bush what kryptonite was to Superman! So toke up and you'll be safe!

Ucunga,

We ain't goin' nowhere! Quit trippin'! We're here for the duration!

Murph,

Start loadin' 'em up and rammin' 'em down! We might be needin' 'em soon!

I come not to comfort the afflicted, but to afflict the comfortable! And I'm lovin' evry minute of it!

 
At 2:44 PM, Blogger stoney13 said...

Ucuga,

The seventh post from the top. You said you were scared that you had lost us all.

Good shit you smoke there Ucuga! Wish I had some!

 
At 5:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

thinks for the good thoughts guys,i'll take them with me to the room when the time comes and should be this month i hope,found one of thoes stand alone bicycles at the dump today and am practicing on it,
thank you so much for the support,
peace
montana freeman

 

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